Welcome to the Make Money as a Life Coach podcast, where sales expert and master coach Stacey Boehman teaches you how to make your first 2K, 20K, and 200K using her proven formula.
Stacey: Hey coaches, welcome to another special bonus episode. I have my client Chavonne Perotte – is that how you say your last name?
Stacey: Perotte, here with me today. And so here’s what I just told her. This is what I imagined this week being is my podcast platform, me, myself, going a little bit silent this week, not releasing a podcast. And amplifying the voices of my Black students and this is how I presented the conversation with each person.
It’s been so fascinating because everybody’s wanted to kind of talk about a different angle, is if you had my listeners – we have about 400,000 downloads right now. We have anywhere from 6000 to 8000 listens for each episode. If you had 8000 people listening to you, thinking about my Black listeners, my white listeners, my coaches, thinking of everyone listening, what would you want to say?
And so Chavonne has a lot of things to say that I feel so excited for you to say for the people that will hear them. So we’re just going to dive in. So why don’t you introduce yourself? Tell people what you do in your business and what you want to talk about today.
Chavonne: Absolutely. Well, it’s an honor to be here on the podcast. I am Dr. Chavonne Perotte. I am a life and marriage coach and I work with high-achieving women, which is really just codeword for Type A women, who are unhappy in their marriages. And I work with them to love being married again to their husband.
In terms of what I want to talk about today, as you said, I really do have the opportunity to sort of decide how I want to frame this conversation, and I really am excited to just talk about the things that I had in my own head as a Black woman in this country, as a Black woman building a coaching business that really didn’t serve me and how I ultimately framed them and positioned them to create more of the success that I was striving for.
Stacey: And you’ve created a lot of success. So today we’re recording this, by the time that the listeners will hear this episode, they will have hopefully seen the Instagram story of your incredibly transformation of – do you want to start there? Because that post blew me out of the water.
Chavonne: Yeah. So it’s so funny. I think any story of transformation starts way before the revealing of the transformation. And so for me, it was really just joining 2K and being blown away by just this new way of considering engaging with my audience and enrolling them into the transformation that I was offering them.
And so I had sort of immediate success in the program just because of that total paradigm shift. I joined the mastermind, which was also just an eye-opening experience of sort of showing me what was really actually possible for life coaches.
And I grew in that experience in so many different ways, and then with the second round of the mastermind, I really found myself in this place of compare and despair, and really comparing myself to everyone else, feeling like things were just not possible for me. So much to the extent that I was not succeeding at all and ultimately was removed from the mastermind.
And that was one of those sort of moments where I think we all have those experiences where you get to decide who you are going to be. That something happens, and then you make the choice for how you want to show up to that experience.
And so I knew it was for my growth. I knew that it did not mean anything about my potential and what I was going to be able to create in my business. And so I really just used that time to reflect and to identify, what was working about that experience, what wasn’t working, what were the things that I needed to do for myself in grounding myself in who I was and what I was actually capable of, and then using that to just do it.
I think so much of what happened in wanting to join the mastermind, and I think some other students experienced this is you’re like, I have to be in the mastermind, this is my path to creating a 200K et cetera business. And I decided to focus on sufficiency and to identify where is what I have now enough.
And I made the conscious decision to use 2K as my own mastermind. And I went back through the modules, and I not only just listened to it and consumed the information and took notes, but every single module that I would watch, I applied it immediately. Like, immediately.
And through that process and really just deciding that I am a successful coach, I was able to ultimately create in one month $16,500 cash in my business, which for me, is the highest that I’ve achieved to date.
Stacey: Yeah, wow. That’s insane. I’m so excited and so proud for you. And I do think I experience that with my mastermind where people come in and I’m really trying to tell people like, if it’s going to shut you down or if you’re really attached to it, do your work on that. Because I did the same thing with million-dollar mentoring.
I went in, I spent the entire time comparing and despairing, freaking out, telling myself I didn’t belong, fearing that everything I did I was going to get kicked out. And I actually did for a little bit. She was like, you can’t rejoin the next mastermind. And I had that same kind of moment of like, okay, I’m still going to get my result no matter what and I will get back inside. I will be back in there.
And then a couple weeks later, I had signed up for master coach training. I’m like okay, I’m going to really get mastering my brain. She decided I could come back in, but I had that little moment of like, no matter what, I’m going to get my result, 100%.
And for me as the coach, and we give you a refund and I just want my students to be successful. And I’m like, if it’s not working with me, this is what I see, and I’ll be interested to hear your opinion is sometimes in the coaching industry, you can buy into something. You can spend a lot of money and then you’re stuck.
For whatever reason, you’re not getting the result. And then the coach just kind of doesn’t do anything about it because they’re uncomfortable with talking about it, they’re uncomfortable with dealing with it. They will just – I don’t know what their reasoning is, but you can sit in a mastermind, not get results, keep paying someone money.
And for me, I really wanted that to be the it ends with me in the coaching industry. It ends with me of you being able to spend lots of money and be out lots of money and not be getting results. And so I feel so compelled by that and I’ve had to refund a lot of people. And I have to say, I’ve never seen someone take that and transform so deeply with that.
Keep going, keep staying on their mission. I read that post and it literally – the only way I can talk about it is it felt like it blew me out of the water. And I instantly just cried my eyes out and I was just so happy for you. I wanted that success for you and I wanted us to figure it out. But whatever was happening, it just wasn’t working in the moment.
What do you think was the defining turning point of like – I mean, what was it? Four months of not signing clients. What really – was it just a culmination of continuing to work at it? What was that turning point for you?
Chavonne: You know what I think it was, I think my striving in the mastermind was not coming from the right energy. It was coming from having this goal, trying to keep up with everyone else. And so when I wasn’t signing clients for that four, four-and-a-half-month period, zero clients, lots of consults, zero clients, I had to then learn to value myself without the success, without the tangible marker of achievement.
And that is the work that I did. I spent an entire month, literally every single day, doing a deep dive into how am I enough, how can I love myself even when I’m not achieving the things that I think I should be achieving, the things that have been set as a standard for me to achieve.
And so it really required me to redefine how I saw myself, that I am still a successful coach, I still have value. That’s really the thought that I started with, which was – I got from you and one of your podcasts. I have value. Regardless of if I’m signing clients or not, I still have value, and I have something valuable to offer the world. And so let’s just start with that, regardless of what the external circumstances are demonstrating to me.
Stacey: Yeah, that’s so good. I love that so much. So one of the things we were talking about before we went live on the podcast is what Black women face when they come into the coaching industry and the thought that they have to overcome in order to start making money.
And you have a different perspective. You’ve really done this work on yourself and I would love if you would share a little bit about that for my listeners who might feel like it’s a little bit harder for them, the system isn’t set up for them, and that there’s a lot harder work to be done. Can you speak on that?
Chavonne: Yeah, absolutely. So what I’ll say first is I have all those thoughts as well. So what are those thoughts? Those thoughts are growing up as a Black person and Black woman in this country, it’s sort of engrained, at least in my family and many others that I know, that you sort of have to work twice as hard to achieve anything.
And so there’s this automatic work hard mentality because you’re going to have strikes against you that you’re going to have to overcome that other people don’t. I think the other thing is when we look at the data, I serve predominantly an audience of Black women. And so when we look at sort of how different ethnicities spend their money or how different ethnicities rank, so to speak, in the socioeconomic status, African Americans are lower.
They’re at the lower end of income levels, they are spending money in different ways. And so there is this belief that unfortunately is sort of supported if you look at the facts that this is not an area where African Americans invest their money. I think the other piece of it, which was really profound for me was also where to place my spirituality in context of making money.
Because I think as a life coach, the premise of it is you get to create whatever result you want in your life. You get to put whatever you want in the R line. And so as a person of faith, trying to reconcile that with my beliefs that God is sovereign and how do I get to determine that, those were all the things that I just had to sort of like, figure out how to position them, and in a way that actually served me.
And so I think what was happening but I didn’t have the language for, and I think when you were coaching Essence in the 2K program, you offered like, let’s just assume that those things are true. How do you want to respond to it? And so the argument didn’t become trying to believe something that I couldn’t believe, but just like, what did I want to do with that information and how could I use, even if I chose to believe that was true, how could I use it to serve me?
And so I think what I did truly believe as a result of just what you teach is that you don’t always have to work harder in terms of quantity of what you’re doing, but really like, you can focus on being more impactful with what you say and you don’t have to say more of it. So doubling down doesn’t mean that you need to be posting everywhere and sending 1000 emails and doing 50 million livestreams.
But it’s how can you use what you do say in the most powerful and impactful way. So I really chose to focus on that. I’m not going to send just an email just to send an email. But how can this email be the most powerful thing that someone engages in in their day? How can I elevate my own money mindset to just be in the energy of abundance? And how can I demonstrate and be a model of what is important to me in terms of how I’m investing my money?
So investing in coaching. And then with my faith, and African Americans historically are a culture of great faith. And so what I had to recognize is really like, God wants me to be successful. And I had to really give myself permission to be successful and to know that he just already told me yes to everything that I desire because he placed it in my heart, and he’s given me the tools that I need, and so the answer is yes.
Chavonne, if you want to make 25K this month, the answer is yes. Just do it. Just go out and be the person in full faith that you have everything you need to accomplish that. And so that’s how I began to just position those beliefs in a way that served me.
Stacey: Wow. That’s so powerful. So I was just coaching someone in 2K about this very thing. So her thought was – let me see if I can find it – is that there’s so much struggle around her. So how would you talk to someone that really feels like, as a Black woman in the coaching industry, that there’s so much struggle that she has to go up against to just get to the starting line, which is what I was coaching Essence on.
That starting line of where white women start. Maybe it is easier for white women to make money. Can you coach a little bit on that or talk a little bit about that, of someone who feels like they’re really just starting out? Because sometimes they join 2K and I’m the first introduction to thought work, to coaching at all.
And I mean, I remember how overwhelmed I was at the beginning and all the thoughts that I had. And so could you speak to someone who feels like I just have so much struggle around me? I have struggle in society, I have struggle in my family, I have struggle with money. The struggles are just, to them, may feel like it’s endless. Can you speak a little bit to that?
Chavonne: Yeah. I definitely can speak to that because I believed the same. And so the first thing I had to do was identify where am I creating the struggle? Where am I making it harder for myself than it needs to be. And really investigating that.
Again, being sort of this achievement-driven person with the mindset that things are never just handed to you. It has to be hard. If you didn’t work hard for it, then it’s going to all fly away from you. And so I think recognizing how much of that is just the beliefs that you have versus what’s actually true.
The other thing that I think is really important to recognize is this is a growth process. And so whenever you are looking at the end only and not looking at who you need and get to become in the process, then the struggle is going to be pointless. It’s just going to feel like an obstacle that’s in the way and that’s preventing you from what you’re trying to achieve.
But when you see it as growth, like every challenge is growth, like how do I grow through this. Yes, it may be harder, yes, there may be legitimate barriers in my way, but who do I get to become from having to have going to go through those barriers?
So that’s something that I really, really focus on like, who am I becoming and who do I want to be? Yes, it may be a struggle, yes, they may have struggle everywhere I look, but I also get to decide how I rise up to that struggle and use that struggle to create something even bigger and better for myself.
Stacey: Yeah. I think that’s what I think is so important to talk about here is that some of the struggles may be – I love how you said legitimate barriers. We don’t need to argue with them. We don’t need to tell ourselves that it isn’t easier for other people. It may very well be. There are lots of people who have a leg up.
I think if you have come into money and you have money, it could be a leg up. There’s so many things. So I just don’t find it’s ever useful when it’s really – something that feels very legitimate to me, to argue with my brain. Because then we’re just creating so much resistance, and like, what you said about believing something that you actually don’t believe to be true.
And I think sometimes that people think that that’s what thought work is. They think that what we’re teaching is like, you have this belief, you’re wrong about your belief, and just believe this new thing that you don’t believe, which is not what we’re teaching.
It’s like, maybe there is a legitimate barrier. If you have no money in your account and it’s negative, that’s legitimate barrier. If you’re being emotionally abused at home, that’s a legitimate barrier. There are so many. And I would be so curious to hear from you what you felt like were your – I have my list of barriers that felt very real to me, what your list of barriers were that you chose not to argue with or believe that they weren’t barriers, that you decided to just decide who am I going to be when I come up to these barriers and what am I going to grow and what am I going to learn from it. Will you talk a little bit about that?
Chavonne: Yeah, absolutely. So I think for me, one of them was feeling like I had a deeper negativity bias. So I feel like we all know that our brains trend towards negativity, but when I look at sort of like, historically how African Americans and Black people have been treated in this country, we have just experienced a lot of negativity that even if you don’t actively experience it, it’s sort of this passed down inherent memory that’s just in you.
It’s literally just in you and how your mind is wired. And so I recognized just how negatively I thought about everything. When someone would book a consult, my immediate thought would be, “Well, they’re not going to pay. They’re not going to hire me. They’re not going to have the money. It’s going to be a struggle to try to overcome their objections and help them see.”
I’m never going to change their mindset in this one call because they have these deeply ingrained beliefs about how you spend money and how you don’t spend money and the value of coaching and all of these things. So I just recognized that those things were just in my heavy bag.
I love the analogy that you use with that. It’s like, okay, they’re here. I get to bring them along with me. They are part of this experience, but I don’t have to sit there staring at it the entire time. I get to know that it’s there and I still get to show up and I still get to serve this person, even with all of my beliefs, even with all my judgments.
I think having judgmental thoughts about people was another area that I just knew was an extreme struggle for me. The thoughts just come up and I paid a lot of attention to them and I brought them to my calls. And so it wasn’t until I just accepted that that is a part of how my brain works and allowed it to be there and still focused on connecting and having empathy and really being present with the person that was right in front of me, regardless of my personal struggles, and really tune into their struggles and how I could help them
Stacey: And how did that translate? Did you see a difference in the way that you were doing consults? With the way the people were responding to you on the other end of the phone?
Chavonne: 1000%. I did, 1000%. I think in all that period where I wasn’t signing clients, I want to say I had probably almost 30 consults in that period.
Stacey: Yeah, I mean, I saw. You were doing consult evals like crazy.
Chavonne: All the time. Yeah, all the time. And so it did because I think – I just noticed this going back through 2K. You mentioned that it’s not really what you say but it’s how you make someone feel. And I remember during that period having several calls where people became offended by what I was saying.
And it just made me think about like, what if I assume, one, that this person doesn’t have to work with me? Like, they get to work with me if that’s what they choose, but how do I just create a space of openness where I accept them exactly where they are, I connect with their experience.
And I think especially given where we are in the climate of the world right now, being able to just connect with someone else’s experience, to hold the space for them without judging it, without trying to change it, without trying to convince them really allowed people to be heard.
And I think that was the difference in how I was doing my consults. I wasn’t so focused on oh, I can’t judge them, being in my head about all the negative thoughts that were there and all of the barriers I thought they were going to have to paying me. And really, I just focused on how can I connect to the experience that they are sharing with me?
Especially being a marriage coach, people are coming in such a fragile, very emotional time in their lives. And what they need most from me is connection and empathy, and I just really focused on that. Recognizing that, yup, I still have the judgments, I’m still having a thought crossing my brain about why is she in this marriage. But really in this moment, all I am supposed to be offering is a listening ear and showing her what I see as a coach.
Stacey: That’s so good. And that’s so hard to articulate that experience. It feels like – don’t you think it sometimes from the outside looking in, it can feel like there’s no way that’s enough? It has to be something else. But that really is it.
And I think it’s the hardest thing for people to – it’s like you don’t know what it feels like until you do it. And you just do what you have to do a lot of times, not knowing what it feels like to get to that place where you can finally do it enough that you can do the work of letting them be heard and letting your judgments kind of just be there and allowing them and create that space. It’s like there’s no way to truly get around that, that experience and that process.
Chavonne: Yeah, I agree with you. It is. I think what I was doing initially was just focusing on like, I have to do this right. Okay, let me go back through the consult modules, let me go through the consultation code and let me get my script of exactly what I’m going to say, which took me completely out of being present and connected with the person.
And so when I could just know that the right way is the connected way. Like if you were to summarize it in any way, it’s like, how can you most deeply connect with the person that is there with you and be present with them and just offer your help?
Stacey: Yes. I’ve gone back and forth so much because people love a good sales script. People are dying for a sales script. And I’m like, in some cases, I could see that it could be useful to have a sales script, but I’ve never done one. We have – in the consultation code, there’s the five steps broken down with the steps. I teach this is what you’re doing, this is what you’re accomplishing, these are the transition statements that you can make and how you can transition from the five steps.
And it is like a sales script, but they want an actual this is what you say, these are the questions you ask. And I steer a little away from that, from the fact that I think people get so focused on a process and on this is the exact words I have to say that they’re more focused on that than connecting, and they lose the connection in that.
Chavonne: Yeah, I agree. And I think I had been doing consults the way that you teach it for so long that it wasn’t a matter of like – really, my problem wasn’t I don’t know what to say. It’s how I’m saying it and the energy behind what I’m actually saying.
So yes, there is a place where you need to know what are the questions or the types of things you’re looking for in this part of the conversation, but once you know that and you have a foundational understanding of it, it then becomes what are your thoughts when you’re actually saying those words that’s driving the energy that you’re transferring to the person on the other end.
Stacey: Yeah. That makes me think of when I first learned how to pitch. We would do a two-minute announcement on the intercom of the store we were in. And we would literally just read the script. And you read it until you memorized it.
But once you knew exactly what to say and it was memorized, then I could focus on literally, the delivery of, “Ladies and gentlemen.” If I didn’t nail that delivery and my tone didn’t go down and it went just a little up instead, little things like that, the level of presence I had when speaking the words determined how many people showed up to my crowd, which was really fascinating.
And it taught me this very early on that there’s the words you say and then there’s the presence and intention that you bring behind that. And there’s a lot of failure before when you’re just trying to get the words out, right? But once you can start working on the intention and the presence, that’s where everything changes.
Chavonne: Yeah, totally.
Stacey: So I’m curious because you had the thought that maybe your clients didn’t have the money to hire you or it’s not in the value system of what they would spend their money on. Did you still, once you started getting that presence and that intention and connecting to your consults, did you find that the objections were still there and then you were able to just overcome them differently? Or did you find they weren’t there? Or a mix of both? Can you tell me a little bit about that and how that bias might have started to be chipped away at?
Chavonne: Yeah, it was a mix of both. I would say there were consults that I did where the people sort of came to the call as a yes. They knew that they wanted to work with me. And so it wasn’t a lot of overcoming objections, it was just me really being present and really demonstrating how coaching in the way that I offer it could solve their problem.
And then for the other people who the money really, in their minds, was the legitimate barrier, what I had to coach myself on is they get to decide how valuable this is to them. So my prices are my prices. My role in this conversation is to demonstrate the value of coaching.
And I do believe that no matter what, people will spend and use their money on what they want to spend and use their money on. So how do I just assume that if this person really wants to do this, the money will be available to them? They will find a way to get the money to make this investment.
And so it really just became, I’m not even going to worry about that. Now, don’t get me wrong. The thoughts were absolutely there. Like, in a conversation, when someone is talking about my husband has left, I’m now left with all the bills, I’m struggling to make ends meet, of course, my brain latches onto that and forms the belief like, no, they’re not going to be able to afford this.
And so it becomes just a process of really noticing that and again, deciding what to do with it. And I think one of the lessons I learned and I actually took this to Ask a Coach was in one of my consults, the woman spent a lot of time talking about how she didn’t have money to do certain things that she wanted to do.
And then when it came time to offering her my coaching, she said yes. And I believed her. I believed it to such a degree because I wanted to believe it because I didn’t want to sit and harp on the fact that she might have some financial challenges. And in my desire to want to believe her so bad, I was not as thorough in that conversation.
I didn’t address it. I didn’t call it out and just say like, “I love that you want to commit to this and let’s talk about much of this conversation has been about your financial struggle and now you want to make an investment in this opportunity with me. How are you going to do that? What are your thoughts about how to do it?”
I didn’t have that conversation and what ended up happening was a few days later she sends me a message, “I’m not going to be able to do the coaching. I just can’t afford it.” And so again, it becomes this thing of like, well, how did I create that result? What was going on in my head that prevented me from having the real conversation with her?
And so sometimes I think as a Black woman, recognizing someone who is in front of me who’s also a Black woman who has expressed her financial struggles, I want to believe so much in her potential to not be hampered by that. I want to sort of – the best way I can think of it is like, just bypass it. Like yeah, I hear you, but where there’s a will there’s a way, we can do this, I’m here for you and I got you.
And so I think it’s a very sort of complicated relationship to other people’s money beliefs. And so on the one hand you want to believe that yes, this is important to them, they will find a way to do it, and then on the other hand, you have all the experiences of your life, all your own biases, all your own thoughts about their ability to pay. And so it’s finding a way to allow those things to coexist and to still be thorough in the conversation and not be afraid to sort of surface it and have the talk about money.
Stacey: Yeah. And what did you have to feel? What would you have had to feel? What are you feeling now that is allowing you to say that? Because you’re making a lot of money now, so there’s something that I always say, if you’re not saying the thing that you think you need to say on a consult, it’s because you’re avoiding feeling a certain emotion. So what is that for you?
Chavonne: Listen, it was the best coaching. So for anyone listening to this who’s not in 2K, you have to get in first. And for anyone who’s not using Ask a Coach, get to using Ask a Coach because that was the exact question that came back to me. Like, what would I have needed to be willing to feel in that moment?
And it was I needed to be able to feel like a failure. Like, that’s why I didn’t want to believe her, or that’s why I did want to believe her rather because I didn’t want to fail. I didn’t want to mess it up. And so when I just embraced that I can totally fail at this.
Everyone can say no to me and I’m still going to learn and I’m still going to grow and I’m still going to keep going, then it really became this experience of like, there’s no emotion I’m unwilling to feel and I can feel uncomfortable and sit with the discomfort just like I’m sitting with all my judgments and my money beliefs and my doubt. I can sit with all of that and just have it in the room and still focus on serving and offering the greatest value that I can to the person in front of me.
Stacey: That’s so good. Okay, so I have two things about that. I don’t want to forget them so I’m going to say them both out loud. Okay, so I think that the emotion then probably to feeling like a failure is inadequacy, don’t you think? Like, some level of that, so I want to touch on that.
And then crap, I already forgot the second thing. What was the other thing? Let’s start there and then maybe I’ll think about the other thing. I knew it. As soon as it came into my head I’m like, I’m going to lose it, but let’s start there.
Chavonne: Yes, okay, so inadequacy. Yes. The worst feeling besides I think humiliation. So with me and inadequacy, I think it’s one of those things that again, because I am a Black woman, that has been my only experience in the world. And so my experience of feeling inadequate is – it’s a pervasive thing that has just always been there. It’s just always there.
When I turn on the TV, I don’t see a lot of people that look like me. When I look at what success is, especially even in the coaching industry, I don’t see a lot of people that look like me. And so there is this just pervasive background emotion of inadequacy.
And I know that everyone experiences, everyone feels like in some way shape or form they’re not enough. And so for me, there’s a very, again, complicated relationship with it because it’s sort of like, I enter into some circumstance feeling inadequate already, and at the same time, wanting to believe in myself sometimes forces me or sometimes sort of influences me to just shove away the inadequacy and to feel like, nope, I don’t have time to feel inadequate because I have all these other things that I need to be doing, and so I need to be believing in myself.
And I think for me, that can sometimes create this false sense of confidence that is also off-putting to people. So again, it’s an energetic thing where if I am working on like, no, I can do this and believing in myself and then I get on a call with someone, but I really feel inadequate, then that’s what’s going to be shared and no one wants to hire a coach who’s inadequate.
And so I think just embracing that it’s there, it’s there being a Black woman in this country and feeling like everyone else has some privilege and some opportunities that I have to work twice as hard to achieve, and allowing it to be there but not allowing it to become how I define myself. It’s just like, again, it’s just in the heavy bag and it comes along and I get to choose what to do with it.
Stacey: Yeah. That’s so good. So what I think you were saying though and touching on and I want to just, for everybody listening is the difference between allowing your feeling of inadequacy to be in the conversation and be there, but not be fighting against it, or resisting it in any way. Is that what you were saying? Like the difference.
Because I think that that’s so important – this is actually what I wrote down. It’s the other thing I wanted to say. I want to make sure – I know that we both know what we’re talking about. But to make sure everybody listening knows that what we’re not saying is that you compartmentalize or shove down or push away but quite the opposite. That you sit with the negative beliefs, you let them be there, you allow them to come on the consult ride with you. They just can’t make the decisions.
And I think that that is – people think you have to be really happy on a consult or you have to be really energized, or you have to be really powerful. And I think you just need to be really grounded in whatever emotion you’re in.
I sold the shit out of some mops when I was in negative emotion in Walmart. I was able to do that, but the times that I didn’t sell because of my negative emotion was because I was trying to be something I wasn’t in the moment
Chavonne: Yeah, I agree. It is. It’s just allowing it to be there and noticing it and being like, “Oh, there it is.” Like, oh yeah, there’s that inadequate though. Oh, there it is. There’s that limiting belief. There it is, it’s there. Oh, but I’m over here right now. It’s not shoving it away. It’s like, oh yeah, I see that in the periphery and you just channel your mind back to what’s right in front of you.
Stacey: Yeah. Okay, so can we address this? You said this and I have been listening to my students and my podcast listeners and people that are on my email list. I’ve been listening to this a lot this week and I think this is one of the legitimate barriers that we could say is a legitimate barrier, that there aren’t a lot of African American women that maybe you have to look up to that look like you, that are having the success that you want to have.
My thought about this, and I’m just curious what yours are, I agree. I think that there could be a lot more. And the way I operate is just I don’t fight against things. So I’m like, I think the solution to that is let’s create some. Let’s create the leader that you want to see in the world. If there’s no one out there, I want you to be that leader, I want the listeners to be those leaders. What are your thoughts about that?
Chavonne: Yeah, that is exactly how I feel about it actually. So one of the funny things is I think I was reading one of your emails or maybe it was something you said where you just weren’t aware of what you weren’t aware of. And I think as a Black woman, Black people have this tendency, and I don’t mean to generalize at all, but we notice how many of us there are. We just notice all the time.
So I can tell you I have a general stance of how many African American people are in 2K and we ask the question in our head. So the question that has been in my head for probably a year or 18 months is like, are there any Black coaches in this community between what you’re doing and what Brooke is doing that have made 100K? Are there?
And I’ve literally asked people. And the answer that I think is no, there may be someone that I just don’t know about. And I was like, oh okay. It’s funny because I messaged this question to Maggie because I’m not in The Life Coach School and I just asked her, and she was like, I don’t think so.
She was like, are you going to be the first one? And I was like, absolutely. I just made up my mind like, well, if there are none, like, that’s me. And then I became friends with TaVona and then she and I had the same conversation. And she’s like…
Stacey: Yeah, she’s going to be on too.
Chavonne: Yes. And she was like, I won’t mind sharing the stage with you. And I was like, well, it’s okay because I’m not in LCS. I’ll just be the first one in 2K. You can be the first one there. But it literally is. And even Jennifer and I have had this conversation. So it’s that mindset of okay, it hasn’t been created before, great. The space is wide open for me to be that person and for me to then bring along everyone else I can do that level as well.
Stacey: Yeah, that’s so amazing. I 100% agree. I don’t agree that it’s right that it shouldn’t be there. But I think that we can’t spend time arguing against what is. We have to work on creating what can be. And I’m here for it. I agree. I want to see more minorities in general.
I’ve been talking with – I don’t know if you know Brenda Lomeli, but she – I want to say she’s Mexican but I also don’t 100% know. I’m pretty sure that’s what she said. That’s what I think I’m remembering but I don’t want to get it wrong. But it’s been a really big deal for her to reach that level of success because no one in her family has had that.
And I think that is like, let’s do it then. Let’s do this. Let’s be the first people in our families to make 100K. Let’s be the first people in our communities to be the leader. Let’s do that. Let’s blow the lid off. Brenda’s going to make a million dollars this year and she’ll be on the stage and she might be the first person of color, I’m thinking right now, I’m trying to think, but she might be the first – I could be wrong, but the first person of color that stands on the LCS stage as a million-dollar earner.
That, to me, represents so much change and I’ve been thinking as a business owner, I want to figure out how I can contribute to fostering an environment for that to happen. And I also want to empower my students to decide they’re going to be that person. To me, that feels like that’s the best thing we can do.
Chavonne: I agree. And I think the more examples that we do create of that, I think one of the thoughts I have always had, especially being amongst this community of coaches and seeing the people post and seeing other people have such great success is like, success is for them.
And I can tie that very clearly to just comments that I heard growing up about oh, they’re rich. And so it’s sort of like, the wealth and the success is something that is for them and not for you. And how cool is it to be the first or among the first to prove that no, success is for you and success is for me as well.
Stacey: Yeah, that’s so good. I love that so much. Okay, is there anything we haven’t covered that you want to share with people listening that want to have your success, that want to be where you’re at, that want to believe themselves into being that could be me as well?
Chavonne: Yeah, great question. So I did think about what are the key shifts in thinking that I had to have that has really put me on this different trajectory. And I think the first is that your success is actually inversely related to the amount of time you spend thinking about yourself.
Meaning that the more you think about others that you are serving, the more you think about how can I give this person, this audience, this listener my absolute best. It’s not about I hope they sign up with me, it’s not about I hope that I can overcome their objection. But it really is about like, how can you think of yourself less and think about the other person that is there engaging with you the most.
That, to me, has been the biggest shift because again, all of these thoughts and all these beliefs we have are really about ourselves, about what is against us, what we don’t have, what we can’t do, which takes our focus off what is actually available in our hands right now to give. And that is how success is created because it’s about the value that you give to another person that inspires them to want to engage with you.
So I think that is a really important thing. And then the other piece that I would say is – and I got this language from Kristen Finch actually. She said there is no worthy ladder, meaning anyone that you admire, you can be in the 2K community, we can all look at you, Stacey, and feel like she’s achieved this level of success, she’s better than me, she’s more worthy than me, she’s more deserving than me.
And the shift that I had, which is really what inspired the post in the 2K group was when I saw Simone in the 200K promotional videos talk about, oh, who am I here to be here? Immediately, I had the thought like, as I saw her shift her belief, my belief shifted as well. Just experiencing that statement for her. And my immediate thought was I am one of them.
Literally, that is the thought that happened and it happened I guess in the middle of May. And that is when I made the majority of the rest of the money. And I decided that any of these people that I’m admiring and thinking that success is for them and not me, I am their peer.
And the moment I stepped into that, the moment I believed these are my peers, they are not above me, they are not smarter, they are not more talented, and I began to just challenge any thought that would separate me from that belief and I returned back to it. Anyone I admire, anyone that has achieved the success that I am looking for is my peer. I am one of them. And that is the belief really that changed it all.
Stacey: I have like caused me, hearing you say it, to inhale so deeply. It felt like the breath went like, all the way through me. That is genuinely how I feel. I feel that way about my 200K students. I feel like having them in my mastermind is the honor of my life. I go to them a lot when I want advice or I call Lindsay all the time.
I don’t see myself as above and I’ve never thought to teach that and articulate it the way you said it. But I do think that’s so powerful. I think people who fear the coaching industry something, it’s because – and this is something I’m hearing is that they don’t want to be – there’s someone above them and they’re capped by that person who is above them and they could never be more successful.
But I always try to think like, I could be more successful than Brooke. That’s possible for me. And my students could be more successful and do it faster than me, and that’s the goal. Let me do the hard work and figure it out ahead of time so you can do it faster than me. And that’s what I’m seeing with Brooke.
It took her – I don’t remember how long, but I feel like 10 years to make a million dollars. And then she taught her students how to do it in a couple. Some of them in like, two. So I’m like, that to me feels like I don’t want to create a hierarchy of women’s success. There should never be a ladder where I’m at the top. I want my students to – that’s like a testament to our work when our students become more successful than us.
But I just don’t see it that way. I don’t think that I could ever cap my students’ success or their success can be capped by mine because I see them in such regard and I never want to be that. I just want to show them their mind and offer them the perspective I have, but I love that you said that and I want everyone to just replay this.
Hit rewind, 30 seconds, go back, hear her say that again, and breathe it in. Breathe it all the way in because I don’t think that that’s the way that coaching is meant to be. I don’t agree that there is a hierarchy, I don’t believe in the alpha mentality. I genuinely believe that we’re all in a circle and the more successful I am, the more successful my students are, and the more successful they are, the more successful I am.
And I believe that we’re all contributing in this journey and I agree, anything that makes you think otherwise, question that. Question that for yourself and question as the student and question it as the leader. Anything that – as a leader, if you sometimes think that I’m the alpha or the one in charge, those are ego thoughts. They come from the ego.
Question it all. Question it as the student because I just think it’s so important in this industry that we treat each other as colleagues and peers, and for me, I think it’s important for my coaching that I coach my student thinking that she is successful and as worthy of success as I am. I think that’s an important thing as the coach to think about.
And I’ll tie it back to the consults. When you think that your consults, no matter where they are, I always think, thank god Brooke didn’t look at me when she was still doing consults for Life Coach School when I did mine. And thank god she didn’t get on the phone, I’m in the Walmart parking lot, Chavonne.
I’m in the Walmart parking lot on my break on the phone with her, telling her I have no idea where I’m going to come up with $6000. It’s more money than I’ve spent on anything. And thank god she didn’t be like, great, another girl that doesn’t have money, can’t pay me. She saw me as her ability to change is as possible as my ability to change.
So she was like, let’s do it, you’ll figure it out. Literally, she was just like, you’ll figure it out, I’m sure. She had that much faith and regard for me. She didn’t talk down to me, she didn’t think, oh, let me help you brainstorm how to come up with the money. She was like, you’ll figure it out.
And then her belief in me that I would figure it out let me step into that belief that I would figure it out. I’m like, hell yeah. She treated me like I was one of her and so I think it’s so important when you’re on a consult and you might be listening, their life might be a little messy right now. Their marriage might be messy, their business might be messy, their money might be messy.
But can you – and I think that’s what connection is, and you can tell me if you agree. But the connection is you and I are the same. Whatever results you have going on that are messy, you’re just as capable of change as I am. Maybe even more. So I can only speak to you in regard and talk to you in that way and believe that it won’t be difficult for you because I know how possible change is.
Chavonne: Yeah, I think it is. It’s a very subtle difference too. I think when you become exposed to coaching and you have your own transformations and you know what it can do for your life, you want it for everyone. And it becomes this thing where when you have a consult, sometimes you can be pushy just out of desire for people to have the experience that you have had.
And so when you can look at someone and both see their potential but then also see that they are wonderful and sufficient just as they are right now, then it really does create that space for them to just step into this next level, as opposed to you like, being the person to push them there.
But it does start with like hey, we’re both humans having a human experience, having these emotions. The emotions you have in your marriage are the same ones I have in mine. And guess what, I just have some different tools to help me manage them, to help me understand them and to help me operate in a different way.
Stacey: So good. I love that. Thank you so much for coming on. I feel like my entire audiences’ mind is going to be blown having listened to this podcast, and I feel like it’s going to be one where people talk about for ages.
Chavonne: I hope so. I hope that it is valuable to them. Thank you for having me.
Stacey: Okay, so how do people connect with you? And first of all, let me just say they have to go to your Instagram because I was going to your Instagram and if they scroll back, I think that they could actually see the transition in your copy. It’s profound.
I’ve been reading your stuff and I’m like, something about this is so different. It’s not the words you’re saying. It’s just the energy that you feel when you read it is so different. So tell them how to find you on Instagram. I don’t remember your exact handle but they have to find you on Instagram and see that work and read your copy and feel that work.
Chavonne: Literally, it is. It is literally like, you can see the middle of May, everything changed. So the handle is @chavonneperotte. It literally is. And it’s such a funny thing because even to start posting on Instagram, I’ll just say this last. And I think for anyone who has been playing small, that’s what that was for me.
Instagram felt so intimidating to me and Jennifer Dent Brown had asked me, she’s been on my email list for years, and she was like, why don’t you ever post your stuff on social media? And it was literally like, we had that conversation one day. Two days later was the video with Simone. And I was like, yeah, I am on Instagram. That’s just who I am because I am this successful coach.
And so of course I have a presence on Instagram. And so I just showed up there as that person whereas before, I’d post sporadically, maybe, but not in the same energy. And so yes, you can literally look at my profile and see like, this is the day everything changed for her.
Stacey: That’s so fun. Do you have a podcast?
Chavonne: I do have a podcast.
Stacey: I love it. Tell them how to listen.
Chavonne: Yes. So the podcast is called Love Marriage Again with Dr. Chavonne. It is on Apple, it is on all the podcast platforms so you can definitely listen there as well.
Stacey: And then they can go to your website.
Chavonne: And they can go to my website. So my website is drchavonne.com.
Stacey: Okay. And we’re going to put all of this in the show notes, but I think sometimes they get – I might not go to the show notes. I would just write it down and go. So we’ll give it to them here and it will also be in the show notes, but definitely check out Chavonne. Go to her Instagram. It is so fantastic. If you’re in 2K and when you listen to this, please shout her out because this podcast was pure gold and we’re going to have to talk after about you being a guest instructor, I think.
Chavonne: Let’s do it.
Stacey: You could throw down on teaching some consults, I can tell.
Chavonne: I’ve definitely been through the ringer with them, so I’ve learned a lot.
Stacey: You have. But that’s the best thing when you’re like, all those fails end up teaching you like, an incredible knowledge that’s with you forever. That’s the whole point.
Stacey: Thank you so much for being on.
Chavonne: Thank you for having me.
Stacey: Alright, I’ll talk to you soon. Bye.
Hey, if you are ready to make money as a life coach, I want to invite you to join my 2K for 2K program, where you’re going to make your first $2000, the hardest part, and then $200,000 using my proven formula. It’s risk-free. You either make your 2K or I give you your 2K back. Just head over to www.staceyboehman.com/2kfor2k. We’ll see you inside.