Ep #168: 5 Million Dollars Revenue and Finding Your Voice with Kristen Boss

Welcome to the Make Money as a Life Coach® podcast where sales expert and master coach Stacey Boehman teaches you how to make your first 2K, 20K, and 200K using her proven formula.

Hey, coaches, I have a really special episode for you here today. I have invited my highest earner, Kristen Boss who just made $5 million last year, to the podcast to interview her and get all of the goods for you. So, get ready, buckle up. This interview is going to be value packed. However, I have to say, Kristen, I’ll have you introduce yourself but I was laughing before this interview because I have no plan. I have no idea what I’m going to ask you.

I was like, we should for sure have her on and we for sure should have a conversation. So, we’ll see where it goes. It could go all over the place. But let’s just start with, tell everyone who you are, what you do and we’ll start from there.

Kristen: Well, thanks for having me. This is fun. It’s my first one-on-one interview with you on the podcast so I was super excited about it.

Stacey: I was thinking, have I had you on at all? I can’t even remember.

Kristen: Just in groups, just in group interviews but not since I’ve – yeah, this is my first one-on-one with you so I was super excited about that. So, I’m Kristen Boss, and I am a coach for network marketers, and network marketing industry, or multilevel marketing, however you want to say that. And yeah, I’ve been coaching since the end of 2019. And it’s been a wild ride. And like Stacey said, I made $5.3 million last year.

Stacey: 5.3.

Kristen: 5.3, and so it’s just been a blast, and hard, and good, feeling all the things. I’m like, oh, she’s having me on this podcast, I’m going to cry for sure. I’ve been processing so much lately.

Stacey: You have been having a lot of growth which I mean you’ve had just so much growth. Think about that, if you just started in 2019. So, was that three full years or, wait, two full years?

Kristen: No. I started the December 1^st was when I launched my coaching business of 2019, yeah.

Stacey: Okay. So, tell everyone what you were doing before that. They’re going to be like, “What?”

Kristen: Yeah. So, I was a hairstylist for 15 years but I’ve always been a serial entrepreneur. I had a wedding business. I’ve done 500 weddings in my lifetime by the way which is crazy. I had an online clothing boutique and I was in network marketing for a season as well. And I was always just someone that people were like, “Hey, can I call you? Can I pick your brain?” I was just always a serial entrepreneur and loved hair but really was like, I’m not sure this is my lane.

And I kept getting phone calls, pick your brain coffee dates. And I remember it was the spring of 2019 where I was like, maybe there is something to people picking my brain all the time. I wonder if there is a career for that. I’m like, wait, it’s coaching. And that’s actually what I do, as a hairstylist, I’ve been doing this for 15 years.

Stacey: It’s so good.

Kristen: Yeah. It was just removing myself really from the hard physical labor of being a hairstylist and figuring out, well, what am I really good at? And I just went all in and then it was crazy.

Stacey: Let’s talk about this because I think this could be a really – something important for people to hear because a lot of people think that the only way to make lots of money in the coaching industry is to coach coaches. And you and I specifically had a coaching session on this. There was a moment where you were going to go either with network marketers, because you were coaching both. I think you were coaching network marketers and then you were coaching some coaches.

And then some network marketers wanted to become coaches. And so can we talk about that for a second because I was talking to Lindsey Mango a couple of days ago about this coaching session. And I remember having my own thoughts about it and being very, let me keep those out of it and just very unbiasedly coach you. And I really believe you can make money in any niche. The coaching that we did, I just remember thinking more so I hope she – I don’t even know exactly what the thought was. But something like, and this was [inaudible], chose the right lane.

Kristen: I have a very vivid memory of that coaching. And I remember, it was like the one thing, I was like if I go to the 200K live event this is the only thing I want coaching on. Because you’re right, I was coaching half coaches, half network marketers. And I think I had a lot of stories about coaching network marketers. And I remember thinking, yes, my thought was, it’s easier to coach coaches. I can scale them faster. I just had so many stories about that industry. And I also really saw, I guess, in network marketing I saw really big players in the industry.

And I really thought there wasn’t room for me. And so, I do remember when you coached me on my thought errors you were just like, “Okay, just so you know the same problems you see in network marketing, it’s the exact same problems in coaching.” And when I saw the similarities I remember my brain just clicked. And I even remember, I made a decision so fast that I think it was right after the break.

Stacey: I was like, “I don’t know if you’ve thought this through. Let’s talk through this.” What allowed you to make the decision so fast?

Kristen: Honestly, I think I had been ready to make a decision and I was just one thought away from it clicking for me. I was so busy focusing on how they were different that I really just needed a thought to see what was similar. And once I understood what was similar it fell rapidly into place. And I really understood, well, where is my heart? Where is the biggest problem I see in the industries, or where I want to serve. And when I saw a huge gaping hole in network marketing, I’m like, “Alright, we’re going to go. We’re going to go all in.” And just we’re going to ride this ride.

Stacey: I love that you were like, “Where is my heart?” I think a lot of people make the decision from where is the money? That’s their thought, instead of where do I want to be? Because what’s so interesting is – and I was telling Lindsey this, I was in network marketing, I was coaching network marketers. I mean I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars. I made at least 500K in 12 months with network marketing. And so, it wasn’t about the money. I could have gone on to make millions with network marketing as well but my heart wasn’t in it.

My heart is with coaching, originally I had said when I started my coaching business with Brooke and we were at The Life Coach School training. I had said, “I really want to teach coaches how to sell.” And she’s like, “No, no, no, you’ve got to go sell coaching first. You have to do what you are going to teach them.” And so, I had started with general life coaching and then it had transitioned. I was just destined to always coach business. I think you probably were too. It’s a very similar thing. When you’re already good at sales or marketing or something people want to hear what you have to say.

But I remember being like coaching network marketers and feeling my heart was with coaching. I think sometimes network marketers get a bad rap. I still love all of the network marketers. I love to go to their events, they’re just the best. I don’t even understand when people want to [inaudible] industry. I’m like, “What are you talking about? It’s the best. Let me go to an Amway meeting, I’m going to feel immediately better about my life.”

Kristen: Yes, so good.

Stacey: Just they’re so inspirational and everybody cares for everybody so much. You have such a big community there. Anyways, so I want everybody to hear that, hear the way that she made the decision, where is my heart, not where is the money. Because I think a lot of people want to jump on the bandwagon of business coaching or coaching coaches from the thought, where’s the money. This is where the money is. And you’re always going to make the most money when you’re in the place of where is my heart. That’s always where it’s going to be.

Kristen: And you’re in it for, I guess, I want to say all the right reasons. But you’re willing to weather out a lot of storms when you think, no, this is where I’m supposed to be. This is my work in the world. I just remember how you talked about your work in that way. This is the great work of my life. And I truly feel that way serving that industry. I’m like, “This is the great work of my life.” And I mean I love that I chose the industry. And in some ways I feel it chose me too.

And I really looked at where can I best serve? And I really served from my own story. Actually, what’s so funny is if I were to choose coaching coaches, I would have coached from the story of all of my success. But when I chose to coach network marketers I coach from all of my failures. I coach from everything that went wrong for me and what all the tools I wish someone had given me.

Stacey: It’s so good, that’s so good. I love that. Yes, it’s so good. And the other thing that I was thinking about that I want to just say before we move on. And I don’t want to beat the topic to death by any means. But I want to clarify, as you were saying that I was thinking this. What I’m not saying, I just want to be clear is that if you want to become a coach for coaches you’re jumping on a bandwagon and you’re doing it wrong. I get a lot of people who use my words against me so I’m trying to be very careful, sorry, use my words against them. And I’m trying to be very careful about that.

So, [inaudible], that’s not what I’m saying. It’s just you have to be in your love, in your heart and I would hate for anyone to ever give that up because they were trying to chase money instead of just believing I can create the money anywhere with where my heart is and what I really deeply feel passionate about, you really can. I’m the only business coach in my mastermind that is making millions of dollars. Everybody else doesn’t coach business, they coach weight loss, they coach feminist coaching, faith based coaching. It’s all kinds of different coaching and they’re all making millions too.

So, before we move on I just want to say that, don’t use what Stacey or Kristen says against yourself.

Kristen: Well, and a great analogy for that is what I’m seeing on Instagram. And I think that people will really – it will click. What I see people doing on Instagram where they like, “Well, what do I think will give me the most growth the fastest?” And I see people choosing to be Instagram real coaches in order to grow their base instead of choosing, well, what am I passionate about? How do I best serve? And growing my audience that way. I see people choosing, well, I’m just going to be an Instagram coach because then I can grow faster.

Stacey: What does it even mean?

Kristen: It’s like well, I’m going to teach people how to grow their Instagram’s. Does that make sense?

Stacey: Okay, yes.

Kristen: It’s the same thing, I see people doing that there. I’m like, “Why are you abandoning what you are passionate about, what you love?” Thinking it’s easier. Just when we tell ourselves, it’ll be easier and I’ll grow faster that way, just checking that story, totally agree.

Stacey: Yeah, because it’s going to be hard no matter what you do.

Kristen: It’s going to be hard, yeah.

Stacey: Yeah. And I love that one of your thoughts was, there wasn’t room for me because now you’re Miss keynote speaker at every single…

Kristen: Oh my gosh, I have such a great story about that. I have such a great story. So, I remember when I decided, the first thought came to my mind. I was actually at a convention and I saw someone on stage and I thought, I can do it better. And then I had horrible imposter syndrome and I wanted to hide. And I remember thinking of three key players. And most of the voices in network marketing are all men, all white dudes. And I was just like, “There has to be a woman there.”

And I remember thinking of one particular speaker where I’m like, “He’s my biggest competition. There is no way for me.” I thought he’d cornered the market. And I will tell you, two weeks ago he reached out to me and applauded me, privately reached out and said, “Just want to say what an impact you’re making.” We got on a Zoom call and he started picking my brain.

Stacey: Stop it. After this episode is over I need to know who it is.

Kristen: I have so much to tell you about it, that could be a whole another thing. But my self-concept blew up. I’m like, “Oh my gosh, somebody who I saw as my direct competitor, I can never surpass.” Actually, asked to get on a call with me and ask me questions about how I grew my business.

Stacey: That’s so great. I love that so much.

Kristen: So good, yes.

Stacey: Yeah. So how did you bridge the gap? Because I think people will want to hear this whether they’re breaking into the ‘oversaturated’ weight loss market, or coaching coaches market or whatever it is. I think that that thought, there isn’t room for me is very common. Or all the money has been made, all the clients have been had is a really big one. People will use my network like, well, Stacey’s already coaching all these people, or Brooke’s already coaching these people.

So, for everyone listening, just think of the thought that is that flavor of thought, whatever it is for you. And then I’m going to ask Kristen a question, just how did you bridge the gap from there isn’t room for me to where you are now? Your biggest idols are now picking your brain and you’re getting keynote, after keynote, after keynote. You just wrote a book. How did you bridge that gap?

Kristen: I think the first thing I did was I unfollowed every single person I viewed as my competition to find my voice, every single person. I put myself in my own vacuum. I’m like, “No, I don’t want to see what my competition is doing at all.” I had no idea what they were doing. And it stayed that way. I can truthfully tell you, I think I’m just now starting to follow them back. And maybe I can read their emails, not be triggered and really believe there’s so much room for all of us. And so unfollowing and really finding my voice.

And I really feel that is what will help you find your own market no matter. I don’t care how many business coaches are out there or how many network marketing coaches are. I really feel when you find your voice your people will find you. So, it really was me being willing to be like, “Okay, I’m going to find my voice. I don’t care how long it takes but I’m going to trust that my people who want my flavor and my message will want me.” And I will say I really had to have my own back because my philosophy was so different from what the industry taught.

And I received so much criticism in the beginning and I was just like, “No, I am staying true to this. This is the message. This is the core of who I am.” And the thing that kind of brought criticism at the beginning is really what set me apart is the key differentiator and what drew a ton of people to my business.

Stacey: Which was what?

Kristen: Sustainability. Even in network marketing their mantra is success loves speed. So, the lens I brought to it was sustainability. And I looked at the number one problem was that 90% of people who join the industry quit in their first year. So, I asked myself, why? I was like, “Okay, so if I was to solve for that, how will we solve for this?” Well, I’m going to talk about longevity in this business because of the residual income with this business model.

And I’m willing for people to question me for the sake of people staying and having a better quality of life and giving the business model a chance to give them a return on their investment and tap into the residual income. And I had so many people saying, “This doesn’t work unless you do speed. It won’t work. It won’t work.” And then my students started getting crazy results. And then I was willing to go alone and provide proof that nobody thought was out there.

Stacey: So good. And also, I don’t know if you mind me sharing this but I think that alongside that I remember at some point, and this may be at a different time. You probably know what I’m going to say. I remember we coached on, there was a period of time where the flavor of marketing was very – I think because you knew people had – this might have been after, as a result of lots of criticism. But there was a time period where you realized you were also kind of fighting against the industry or talking against the industry.

Can we talk about that? Because I also think that is so – I constantly try to teach people this. And then I see it just everywhere. You can see it in people’s copy, even the most advanced people can be doing this at the most subtle level when they’re marketing against something else. So, can you just talk about that as well and how you worked through that?

Kristen: Yeah, so good. It was earlier on when I niched earlier on. And I think that was I felt so passionate about my message and where I wanted to see the industry. And I remember I had almost taken the self-concept of I’m an industry disruptor. And any time we’re disrupting we’re setting ourselves against, we’re inviting the conflict. And now I see myself as, no, revolutionizing. I’m taking something that is loved and making it better from a much more positive place.

But when I saw myself as a disruptor I even remember my marketing was more about what I’m not about than more what I’m about. So, I remember even my Instagram bio at a time was like, anti-hate girl, anti-spam. And I’m like, “Okay.” What was happening was I was kind of drawing attention to things that I wanted to see changed but from a kind of accusatory you’re wrong stance. Thinking I was serving but really I think there was a little bit of hurt that was happening. And it was a really good lesson for me.

And really thinking about, okay, instead of talking about what they’re doing wrong all the time, why don’t I talk about what they could be doing and what I’m for, and what I’m about? So, I would say at the beginning my message was like, this is what I’m against. And inviting them in to exploring, instead of, I don’t even need to talk about what I’m against. This is everything we’re for and this is why I’m for you. And this is what you could be doing.

And I don’t even talk about, I’m pretty conservative now about the things that I think they shouldn’t be doing. I talk about what they could be doing instead.

Stacey: Yeah. Well, think about this, gosh, I feel we could literally talk about this for an hour. But think about what you would have missed if you had continued with that, no one would have invited you to keynote speak because they wouldn’t have wanted to bring in a girl whose against everything they’re doing. So, you would have missed all of that trying to wage war against the industry, you would lose people recommending your book, people recommending your programs. Because it would be like, well, we can’t talk about this. This is all the negative stuff.

And I think that people don’t recognize that. I always say this, it’s like, I don’t want to say the lazy way. I’m trying to think of a nice way to say it. But I can just say the lazy way for your brain, not as you as a person but your brain’s lazy way of marketing will be what do I see is wrong in the world. And let me talk about what’s wrong in the world and how I’m right. I just see people’s brains, they want to go there. It seems to be the easiest way for our brains to understand, which is very interesting. I’m not 100% sure why that happens.

But it is, I do think a more skilled harder path to go to always make yourself go to, what do I stand for? What am I about? And let me just focus on that. And I talk a lot about, for example, for me I teach organic marketing. But you don’t see a ton of me slamming ads, and saying, “You shouldn’t be doing this. And this is why people are teaching you wrong. And they’re costing you money.” And they’re not going against people who are – I’ve seen people do, hit pieces in their marketing with other coaches and literally screenshotting.

I saw this recently on Facebook, someone screenshotted someone’s ad, a big person in the marketing industry for coaches. They screenshotted their ad and then their entire value post was how this person was wrong and misleading, and how they were hurting the industry. And this is why it’s wrong. And this is why it’s misleading. And then finally it wraps around, that this is why I am right. And this is why I’m the savior. And I was so turned off by that. I was almost shocked and humiliated for that person and for the person that they took their marketing and did that to.

That’s an extreme version. But I see a lot of subtleties of people – I saw this early on where the mindset coaches fight the strategists. And the strategists fight the mindset coaches. The spiritual people fight the people with processes. The process people fight the spiritual people. And it’s just notice if that’s where your marketing is going. You can really be very clear and flesh out, and very abundant and – abundance is not the right word. But your marketing can be very robust with what you are for without ever being against anything.

And I think what the other piece of this, I’ll be curious to hear what you have to say about it, is when you market against something else you’re going to get a lot of clients who are in victim mentality. They’ve had the ‘negative’ bad experience with the negative bad people who sold them negative bad things in the world. And now they’re coming to you believing all of that garbage and looking for you to change it for them. And you’re just going to get the same client that those other coaches got. And it’s going to be the exact same experience. You’re just coaching a bunch of victims. It’s going to be terrible.

Kristen: Yeah. So, what I was seeing, when you talk about everything you’re against what happens is, I have noticed students suddenly become so afraid of being wrong almost in a moral issue. I don’t want to be spammy. I don’t want to be self-serving. I don’t want to be that girl. Then what happens is they completely freeze from taking any action because they’ve had so much judgment for how they see it done elsewhere. So, because they fear judgment, they just throw the baby out with the bath water and they don’t work at all.

So, I almost have to, you know, I was coaching someone on this thing because this happens in network marketing in their industry too. They kind of have that, I think you call the horizontal hostility, or they’ll knock another company for how a company does things. And they’ll make their focus about why the other company is bad to position themselves as better. And I just call it cheap marketing. I think it’s cheap.

Stacey: Yes, [inaudible].

Kristen: Yeah, it’s just low quality marketing.

Stacey: It’s because you’re grabbing the low hanging fruit. It’s easy to sell people when they’re in pain, that you’re going to solve their negative experience pain point, yes.

Kristen: Yes. And I see them doing that with almost kind of low hanging fruit with people that are dissatisfied in network marketing. It’s because your [inaudible], you don’t have good systems. You end up attracting really whiney entitled people into your organization. And it’s no different with coaching. So, I just notice it only impacts their performance. And so, I finally – a student was just having so much judgment. She was like, “Well, I don’t want to do that spammy way.”

I was like, “Okay, instead of judgment and saying it’s spammy, why can’t you just view this way as this is the efficient way in which I want to do things.” This is just the more effective way versus this is the wrong way.”

Stacey: Or it’s just the way that it doesn’t resonate with me. I tell this to people in 2K all the time. And I have a pretty good example of this too for my own business. But I tell this to 2K people all the time and they’re like, “Well, can I [inaudible] people to come to you.” And they’re like, “But I actually sign clients by reaching out to them.” And I’m like, “Yeah.” What I teach is allowing people to come to you, that’s what I think, for me I have a lot of great reasons to support that. It feels really good to me. But if it works for you or if you find a way that feels good to you.

I had Claudia Curran on the podcast and she got most of her business for her first 100K by reaching out to people who were in her corporate network. And that really felt good to her and it worked for her. So, for me, I’m not like, you’re automatically spammy if you do that. It has to do with your thoughts behind it. So, if you have a thought that it feels good, that’s fine. So, my thought is there are people – I think about this with ads, I think about this with when it comes to reaching out to people or allowing them to come to you.

There are people in the world where their brains understand how to put an ad together. They understand algorithms. They understand all the tech stuff. And they’re not necessarily the same people who are going to be understanding how to go to a networking event and leverage their presence. There are two different people in the world and I’m just looking for the people who might resonate with what I have to offer. And I can even work with the people who do ads. I can just help you covert better. Still join 2K, skip the organic marketing if you don’t need it and let’s talk about converting the people you get on your ads.

We don’t have to be in competition. And we don’t have to be against each other. It’s whatever feels good for you. And that kind of also comes from my belief that all processes work, it’s just your job to make them work. So, I don’t need to fight anyone. You know people in the network marketing world that did it the exact way they teach it and it worked for them and they’re high up in the company making millions of dollars. And they’re like, “Yeah, this process worked, I really believe in it, this is why I teach it.”

It’s just it doesn’t necessarily work for everyone so there’s room for the way that network marketers teach it and then there’s room for the way you teach it. And let’s just scoop up all the people and help them make money. That’s the way to think about it.

Kristen: And I think that even speaks into the market saturation belief, low belief problem. You only believe there’s a market saturation problem if you don’t believe that you can offer a solution to the market that you feel really strongly about. And you’re like, “This is my solution.” And people that seek the solution want it. And I’m going to really believe that if I’m deeply convicted that this is it, this is the best thing in the world and my belief is that high. There are going to be people that are like, “Yeah, I’m buying that from you. I want your process and I want to learn from you.”

And actually, I even think you could sell the same process as somebody else but they’ll just love you. They’ll like your personality, your way of showing up in the world and they’ll be like, “Yeah, if two people have the same process, I’m going to go with the person I feel most aligned with.” And that’s why I also think market saturation doesn’t have to be a problem.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%. And it doesn’t have to be like when you were thinking about your voice and you’re building that, and you’re thinking about what you’re going to offer to the world, don’t necessarily look for – because they do teach this a lot in marketing. You have to find your blue ocean, your thing that no one else is doing. But you could also just do what somebody else is going and do it your way. And that will resonate with a lot of people.

And the last thing I’ll say about – because again I feel I could talk about this the entire episode is just staying in your lane and not having horizontal hostility. But I will say is a lot of times what happens too when you’re having that horizontal hostility is you’re so preoccupied with the other way or the other person that what happens is your marketing suddenly becomes, your best client suddenly becomes that person’s worst client. So, I’ll give you an example.

So, I was coaching someone, I actually think it was in $2 Million Group and one of the examples they had given was – I don’t even remember exactly what it is so I’m going to probably get it wrong. But it was something similar to they thought their clients were people who hadn’t been able to make 2K yet. And I was like, “Wait a minute. Your best client cannot”, I laughed, it was a really good chuckle for me of, “Your best client can’t be my worst client that’s been struggling in 2K, that’s not the person to sell to.”

But when you’re thinking, Stacey’s missing something or they are missing something. They need something they’re not getting there, that’s why they’re not getting results. When you’re in that space, when you’re in that, I’m carving out my own space that is against this other space, or different than this space, or fulfilling this need and it’s just very heavily leaning on, here’s this other space. You subtly slide into that.

So, then it really actually you do create for yourself almost market saturation because you’ve created a market under somebody else’s market. Not because the market itself is saturated but your brain has somehow – there’s this umbrella of this other person, or this other organization, or whatever it is, this other idea. And you’ve put yourself under that umbrella. And now you can only catch what’s under the umbrella instead of catching all of the rain.

Kristen: Yeah. And then what you’re getting is just their scraps.

Stacey: Yes. And think about that, we could talk about it all day. But for me I think sometimes people think that I am, especially in $2 Million Group or 200K, when you get to these higher levels. For example, I have a rule in 200K that you can’t hire other 200K people one-on-one. We do peer coaching. You do that as part of the mastermind so no one’s selling you. No business coaches are coming in and you’re not buying them to work one-on-one with you through the 200K process

And we don’t also recommend people in 2K that they can go, “Here’s this person and they’ll teach you one-on-one.” The 2K or the 200K process, we don’t do that. And I think sometimes people think that I am doing that from a place of lack or trying to be in this tight grip-ness over my clients. And I’m really not. What I’m really trying to do is I see them about to go under the umbrella. And I’m like, “Don’t do it. Stay out here in the rain. There’s so much more rain to catch.”

If every raindrop was a client, why would you only want the ones that are trickling off my umbrella. You want the whole fucking sky. And I don’t know if that’s a good analogy or not. But that’s the reason, I’m like, “I don’t want you to pigeonhole yourself and I don’t want to let you use my business to do that because it’s such a disservice.”

Kristen: Totally agree.

Stacey: Okay. So, what else can we talk about? This was a good one. Okay, you know what? This is actually a question I had. We’re going to rewind. Tell me about finding your voice because I think that this is also something that you kind of mentioned it as the bridge from there isn’t room for me to there is plenty of room for me. And you did mention briefly and I want to just say, I think it’s a brilliant, I do this too so I want to just say. Everyone listening make sure that you adapt this principle. And I will tell you actually I do it for a couple of reasons.

I don’t follow hardly any business coaches. Sometimes I do if they’re my client and I want to pay attention to them for a specific reason. But usually, I unfollow them pretty quickly after I see what I need to see. If there are any business coaches coaching coaches generally I just unfollow them. I feel I have already found my voice so I will say I think if you haven’t found your voice it’s the perfect thing to do is to unfollow so that you can start working on your own voice.

But also, even after you’ve found it, because there are so many business coaches with brilliant ideas. And if I’m working on something I could get totally sucked in to whatever they’re talking about and I’m like, “That’s a brilliant idea. I should talk about that too.” And I like to stay with where I am and the brilliant ideas I’m working on in the current moment. I don’t want to get distracted or pulled into a conversation that I wasn’t intentionally deciding to be in, in my own marketing. I don’t know if that makes sense.

But I can easily share something and see something that I’m really inspired by and share it and be like, “Oh my God.” And then want to jump in the conversation but it’s just not where I had been in my brain in the conversation that I wanted to have. So, it’s not just your voice but it’s also your – I don’t know what you would call it but maybe you’re authentic plan of content, or the message that you happen to be writing at the time, whatever it is.

We go on tangents of like I might be on a marketing tangent or a consult tangent, who knows, whatever it is that I’m thinking about at the time. But I think it helps me just be mining my own brand, thinking about my own stuff all the time. And then putting that out into the world. And believing that’s enough and I don’t have to be covering all the messages all at the same time across the board because they’re all brilliant. So that’s one thing I want to offer.

But I’m just curious I know people are going to hear this and they’re going to latch on to, “Wait, wait, wait, but how do I find my voice?” Could you talk a little bit about that?

Kristen: Yeah. So, I definitely decided to unfollow anybody who was in my work. And were really tempted in the beginning because we want to use them as evidence to build our belief. But there comes a time where we have to move beyond our fledgling belief and think, okay, it’s no longer serving me to follow them, so unfollow. And then what I did though was I just watched who I was serving instead. Instead of who I was, so to speak, competing against. I was just like, I’m just going to watch my market. What do I see them doing that could be improved better?

I kind of just went into data mining those, just like, okay, what are they asking in Facebook groups? What are they asking over here? What’s going on with them? And the more I sought to serve them and answer their questions, I truly was, and because there was nowhere else to look it really did force me to mind my own brain. And really when you do this, when you create concepts from your own brain, from nobody else’s influence it really gives you so much confidence and belief in what you offer.

And I just feel it serves your self-concept so much better when you’re like, “I’m not a copy of anybody else or anything else.” And I’m sitting here. I’ve done the hard. And I can trust my voice. So, I feel that’s what really helped me.

Stacey: Okay. So, everybody hear that. I can trust my voice. Yeah, I think I teach that a lot with posing a theory and trusting yourself to have whatever your solution is or whatever your answer is. That I think is so key is trusting. So, I wrote down when you were talking, what’s my answer. So, if you’re out there looking at your ideal clients and what they’re struggling with is asking yourself, what’s my answer to this? Not what’s the answer I’ve heard out in the world but what’s my answer? And then following that up with I can trust that answer.

Kristen: I even found myself having to move past because there might be instances where I can think of when I would say, “Okay, how would I answer that?” And the first thing that might pop to mind might be something I’ve heard from somebody else. And then learning to move beyond that and say, “Okay, but what else? Okay, now what’s my take on that? What’s different there?” And just kind of putting that additional filter on my brain instead of just the first answer it’s, okay, and what else?

Stacey: So good. I think you could do that. My husband, he always gets so annoyed because I’ll be like, “Why do you love me?” And then he’ll tell me, “What else? What else? What else?” And he’ll be like, “I don’t have anything else, these are the reasons.” It’s just how my brain operates. It’s always asking what else to see what other information comes up. And I just think that our brains are chocked full of this knowledge.

I always say, you have your best ideas and those brilliant things, they’re just right on the tip of your head. They’re just right there at the forefront. But we miss them when we’re not willing to say, “What else? What else? What else?” And there are some other things that are deeply – I feel they’re in the back closet of your mind. And the more you ask questions the more you’re going to pull that stuff up too. So, it’s this combination of pulling what is the first thing comes out of my brain, that is the simplest way that it makes sense to me as my answer.

And then also mining very deeply for what else, what else, what else, what else to see everything that comes up. And doing that as a practice, I think that is where you’re going to find a combination of immediate brilliance mixed with discovered brilliance you had no ideas was even there, which is so fun.

Kristen: It is. It is.

Stacey: I love that. So, I can trust my voice, a very good thought. Okay, so another question that I have, this actually came up a couple of times I think in our word ceremony where you have inspired people a lot with another thought that you have which ties into making $5.3 million. So, your second year of business, is that right?

Kristen: Yeah.

Stacey: So, freaking crazy. Which is, I think this was your thought, it’s safe to make a lot of money?

Kristen: Yeah. It’s safe to be successful, yeah.

Stacey: Okay, so let’s talk about that for a second.

Kristen: I feel like I’m unpacking that on another level just since I got on stage because oh my gosh, I feel that is so much of my work right now, Stacey. And it’s just realizing that it’s our responsibility to create safety for ourselves. And truly feeling safe around receiving and having the success. But also, the safety of it’s not going away, the safety with yourself of I did create this. It’s not a fluke. It’s not going away.

And I feel like safety really is – I was talking about this with Amy Latta, and we were saying, “Holy crap.” Safety with yourself, emotional safety is just a deeper level of I have my own back. It’s the deepest level of I have my own back. So yeah, safety with just this isn’t going anywhere and I’m okay.

Stacey: Yeah. So, this is what I wrote down is it’s safe to be seen. I think that’s the first iteration of it because people are afraid to come out and talk about their businesses, talk about their expertise especially if it maybe is different than what’s been out there before or it just has never been out there before. So, it’s safe to be seen. It’s safe to serve. I think a lot of coaches and maybe network marketers experience this too. But it’s safe for me to be a coach and offer coaching to someone. It may not be perfect every time and I may not do it right every time.

And I might stumble, I might piss people off every once in a while. I still do by the way, the CRO, if you’re scared of making clients mad and doing it wrong, I still do that. I have clients who get pissed at me. It’s fine. You will survive. The more it actually happens the less you take it personal and you just you recognize it as a side-effect of the job. You’re like, yeah, I’m not going to always nail it right. Or sometimes I’m totally dead honest and they’re still pissed, it’s fine, either way.

But it’s safe to serve. It’s safe to repeat it. It’s safe to make money and it’s safe to repeat that money. And it’s safe to have money. I think my work right now for sure is it’s less having and more like it’s safe to – I don’t know what this version of it is because I feel very safe to spend money. But it’s safe to have a business that has lots of overhead, that’s what I’m working on right now.

Kristen: I think I’m there too a little bit right now too.

Stacey: Yeah. I wrote an email about this. And I don’t consider myself, not to offend anyone but I did not grow up with thoughts about the patriarchy. I did not grow up with thoughts that I was different because I’m a woman or that I’m going to be taken out of the game because I’m a woman. I just didn’t grow up necessarily with that experience, maybe because I was just too poor. I was just fighting to survive. I don’t know. But it’s not something I claim to really have a lot of deep experiences in with being affected by it. It’s just not something I consider for myself.

However, it’s coming up at this level. I’m starting to see this internalized, I think what Kara would say, an internalized patriarchy where I definitely notice my brain thinks men have a better handle on money and business decisions. And I don’t actually believe that consciously. But I wrote an email about this. So, we’re at $3.5/4 million overhead right now. That’s what it takes every year to run our business which is really amazing. If you think about profit margins, we’re over 50%, that’s really unheard of in the business world.

So, we’re never even concerned. We’re always like you could spend plenty more money. And I was thinking about $20 million and I was thinking about, so at $20 million I think our overhead will be 6 million ish. I actually made a list of if I could just spend all the money I wanted to spend and do all the things I wanted to do. And it was 6.8 million maybe. And I was just thinking, I don’t know if I can be responsible for a business that requires you to make 6.8 million base before you profit.

And then there was this sneaky, sneaky thought that was because I’m a woman, which was so fascinating to me. That literally was like, what? Hold up. But I’ve noticed that. And I have unintentionally, I have changed this recently but I have unintentionally surrounded myself too with men who are helping me manage my money. And so, I just went with Northwestern Mutual and I have two women now that are helping me with my money. And that’s really helping my thought process around it.

But it’s so interesting to see that come up for me. And also, I have the story of just being irresponsible and reckless with money and never having money my whole life. And having to work through that at this level too. But that’s my next level is it’s safe to make really big money decisions. It’s safe to have lots of employees and run a business at this level. It’s safe to have overhead at this level. And it’s safe to do that as a woman.

Kristen: Yeah. I’m in the pool with you right now. I was like, “Yeah, I feel so much resistance there.” I was like, “Yeah, [inaudible].” But I think it’s good.

Stacey: But I think that’s why it’s also important to be in rooms like the $2 Million Group. And we’re not saying men can’t join us. But right now, it’s only women and we’re all making a high, high level of money. The room starts at 400K and goes all the way up to 5 million. And at that 400K, you have to be at a different level of 400K than selling 400K of one-on-one coaching. You have to be 400K in your scalable offer which is to me the equivalent of 800K of one-on-one.

So that level we’re all women in the room, various backgrounds. And I do think that that’s why it’s so important to do that. And I was just really thinking it’s also that’s why it’s so important to find women who can also help you manage your money and coach you on your money or whatever it is. If that’s your thing. But for me that’s so interesting that it’s come up, I don’t even know, just it’s the weirdest thing to think. The reason that I’m not safe is because I’m a woman.

But I do think it’s been, we’ve been socialized to believe that we’re irresponsible with money and that we’re not good with money, making money decisions. And that we spend too much money and that we’re reckless with money. And we can’t be trusted with it. I just do think that that has been socialized in us.

Kristen: Totally. I have a secret story or a story that I haven’t fully deeply explored yet. But I do think there is this undercurrent of a man knows better than I would and totally knows better. And I do have mostly men surrounding my finances. But I do agree with you.

Stacey: So, we’ve got to change that up.

Kristen: We’ve got to change that up. Actually, my husband’s super excited about diversifying the stock portfolio and it’s going to be with a woman. And yes, I am so excited for that. But I will say the $2 Million room has really served so well in being around women who make really powerful money decisions. That has been so huge for my self-concept. It’s been big, really big.

Stacey: Yeah, so good. This is another thing that’s really interesting is, maybe a little off topic, but I also find this very interesting. I was talking to Lindsey Mango about this because before she became a coach she used to sell permanent insurance. And I recently got into permanent life insurance. Don’t ask me to explain it. For everyone listening, I’m still trying to understand it. But Lindsey said it to me in a way, because my brain is very freaked out by it.

We’re putting in I think 50K a month, I think, to this account and mostly it goes just to the insurance premium for the first several years before you start making a profit off of it. But she was basically saying, “It’s a rich person’s way of saving on taxes and creating accounts.” So, you get to the point where you make so much money you can no longer take advantage of other government things, like IRAs and things like that where you can’t contribute to them anymore. Yeah, so you know that.

For those of you listening, when you make a lot of money then you’ll get to the point where the way that you handle your retirement has to change because you will no longer qualify to contribute to certain other ways. And I don’t know. There’s no one in my family that’s ever had a conversation about permanent life insurance. There is no one in my friend group that’s ever had a conversation about permanent life insurance. So, my brain is freaking the eff out. And I had to ask lots of questions and stay on these questions.

I’m like, “I know I’ve asked this, again, I still don’t understand so let me pose it a different way.” But my brain is like it’s this whole new world of money management and directing your money that I am very grateful to have women helping me with that are very educated and very talented at what they do. But it’s this next level of it’s safe to – let’s just say it’s safe to make big money decisions. What if that’s what it is?

Kristen: I think there is definitely flavors of that that I feel too. I’m like, “These are big decisions.” Yeah. Especially when you really said the overhang of your business. I’m like, “That’s totally resistance I feel right now.” And almost afraid to commit to a bigger money decision in your business. Because I think I’ve always been afraid of the thought, oh no, now I’m going to have to make the money to keep my business going. And I just never love having those thoughts.

So, I just remember thinking, oh no, now my business is so expensive to run and it’s just working through that and creating safety around that. I can have a business that cost me $1.5/2 million a year and I’m okay. That’s another layer of safety for sure.

Stacey: Yeah, it’s so interesting when you said that. I think my thought is subtly different but it’s probably the same. So, I’m going to investigate it when we got off here. But mine is more like, not that I have to make that money. Because I trust myself to make that money. It’s ambiguous, I think. So, I’m going to investigate it. I’m just responsible for that much overhead, and that much business, and that much money.

Because I remember growing up, a thought that I heard a lot was if you make a lot of money then you are working all the time. And you’re never home with your family. And that was just for if you make a lot of money as in 100K, which is so funny. So, I think there’s something that’s tying in there, of there is a lot of responsibility is what it comes to, which is I’m like, “Okay, so what’s the responsibility?” So, I’ll unpack that later.

But I do think it’s really interesting for everyone listening to think about especially if you want to make a lot of money. That first of all if you’re a woman it’s okay, it’s safe for you to make a lot of money and big money decisions. And this will just be something you will work at, at every single level. But I love how much you’ve inspired people to adopt that thought that it is safe for them to make a lot of money, to have a lot of money, to make those money decisions. It’s safe for us all to do that.

Just having that thought and literally letting that sit in your chest and feeling that is a very powerful thing to start with.

Kristen: So good. I’m still working with it.

Stacey: Yeah, it’s a working progress but you’re working with it at the $5.3 million level which is not the same as the 100K level, or the 300K level. We have to work on it, different versions of that too. And I’m the same. I’m at the $10 million level working on that. Okay, so we’re kind of at time. Is there anything when you thought of coming on that we haven’t talked about? I feel what we talked about has been just literal gold. That’s so good.

But is there anything that you think we’ve missed, anything you want to share with them about what’s possible? Because it’s the craziest worry, $5.3 million, [inaudible] your business.

Kristen: I know what I wanted to come on and share because it was such a huge aha moment for me and it was just last week. And I shared it in the $2 Million Group. But you say this all the time and I didn’t realize how deeply profound it was when you say, “This is just the beginning.” And I think I did not realize how profound that thought was until after I had hit $5 million because I think my brain had thought that was the grand finale, it’s the beginning of the end.

And it clicked when I saw on Instagram, I saw Gary V, he’s like, “I’m just getting started.” In his flavorful language which is, “I’m just fucking getting started. I’ve just started.” I’m like, wait, this dude, he’s in his 40s making billions. And he’s thinking, I am just getting started. Why am I not thinking this? Why am I not really believing this is just the beginning? And I also think there’s safety wrapped up in that too. Safety in my success is here to stay and I know how to do this.

And I think just how powerful the thought, this is just the beginning for me truly is if you let it sink in, all the way in. And how powerful that is for us.

Stacey: Yeah. It’s so good. That goes back to it’s safe to have a lot of success, $100 million of success or $200 million of success. It’s safe to have that success, to be responsible for that success, to make those decisions to get there. And I will say for everyone listening, you’re not going to use those big numbers. I would not recommend that you use a number that feels big to you from where you are, but not so big that it isn’t believable for you and doesn’t make any sense.

For me, I do use 200 million in 10 years because that feels tangible. We get to 20 million, we just do that 10 years in a row, that’s kind of what I’ve been working on. So those two feel tangible to me. But I’m not going to $1 billion. [inaudible] right now, I’m not even thinking about that and that’s okay. But at that level it’s safe to, yeah, and it’s just the beginning. That is such a good – I love that thought for all of the things. It’s just the beginning, we’re just getting started, both of us.

Kristen: It’s a good one, just getting started.

Stacey: I know, crazy. I love that. Thank you so much for coming on.

Kristen: This was so fun, thanks for having me.

Stacey: I’m sorry it took me so long. But also, I feel it was meant to be like this.

Kristen: We save it up, it was a good one.

Stacey: Yeah. We just needed to wait until you made $5 million.

Kristen: Exactly.

Stacey: So good. Alright, I will see you soon, talk to you soon in the $2 Million Group. Thanks for having us. Actually, sorry, before we leave. How can we find your book? You wrote a book. Can you tell them a little? I know we’re a little over, [crosstalk] time, but can you tell them a little bit about your book?

Kristen: Yes. You can get it pre order on Target or Amazon, it’s called Pivot to Purpose: Leaving the Toxic Hustle Culture Behind. And it’s about finding your voice, and playing the long game, and sustainability, and leading stories that you’re going to be worthy there, and you can be worthy now, and it’s all about leaning into that. I’m so excited. That book honestly will be the great work of my life and it’s coming out April 19^th, Pivot to Purpose.

Stacey: That’s so exciting. So, we will link that up in the show notes for everyone. But you can also just Google it, or put it in the Amazon search, Pivot to Purpose. And if you’re like, “But I’m doing network marketing.” I just want to offer, if Kristen said brilliant things on this episode and you were like, “Oh my gosh, that was really brilliant”, likely you will have that experience with her book as well. And it’s just so fun to know, you are like, “I know this person. I’m going to read this.”

I just think everybody should buy it immediately. And then how do they follow you on Instagram? And do you have a podcast?

Kristen: I do. My podcast is Purposeful Social Selling, number three marketing all time which is crazy, next to Amy Porterfield and Jenna Kutcher. So, speaking of self-concept blow up, it’s been crazy.

Stacey: That’s amazing.

Kristen: And my Instagram is @thekristenboss so you can just find me over there. But did you see by the way that my book on Target was next to the Snoop Dogg Cookbook? And I died.

Stacey: Stop it. I did not see that. Did you post that in $2 Million Group? That is fantastic.

Kristen: Yeah. I posted it on Instagram, I’m like, “I’ll die happy now.”

Stacey: That’s so great, I love it. Alright, so I wanted to make sure we talked about that. Everyone get her book. Thank you for coming on so much. This was such a great episode. And I will talk to you later.

Kristen: Okay, alright, bye Stacey.

Stacey: Bye.

Hey, if you are ready to make money as a life coach, I want to invite you to join my 2K for 2K program where you’re going to make your first $2000, the hardest part, and then $200,000 using my proven formula. It’s risk-free. You either make your 2K or I give you your 2K back. Just head over to www.staceyboehman.com/2kfor2k. We’ll see you inside.