Ep #80: Healthcare to Full-Time Coach with TaVona Boggs

 In Podcast

Healthcare to Full-Time Coach with TaVona BoggsMaking the transition from your regular job into your coaching business full-time is a scary one. And especially if you’ve trained for a long time and are making good money in your job, it’s so common to encounter strong resistance to making that leap. Well, that’s exactly what my guest in this episode coaches her clients on.

TaVona Boggs spent years working as a physical therapist before becoming a coach and working in her business full-time. Having noticed the conflict this transition brings up for so many people, especially healthcare workers, now she dedicates her work to coaching other healthcare professionals with the mental drama around this transition.

Tune in to discover why so many people have a hard time taking the leap of leaving their job and working as a full-time coach, even if they’re already making good money doing coaching work part-time, and how TaVona helps them develop the courage required to make the transition with confidence. TaVona is also sharing her unique perspective on processing and honoring the emotions that recent events have stirred for so many in the coaching community.

If you want to start making serious money as a coach, you need to check out 2K for 2K. Click here to join!

What You’ll Learn from this Episode:

  • The identity crisis facing those moving from working in healthcare into the coaching space.
  • Why highly-trained people have a lot of resistance to investing in becoming a coach, despite it being something they truly want to do.
  • How TaVona helps people making this transition break down their identity.
  • The biggest practical and strategic problems healthcare professionals face when they start running their own business.
  • What thoughts TaVona wants you to try on if you’ve gotten comfortable with believing, “It’s okay for other people to have six-figure businesses but not me.”
  • How TaVona helps people embody the courage that it took for them to become a medical professional in the first place and apply it to their coaching business.
  • The genius way that TaVona breaks down the sales process and the drivers behind it for her clients.
  • How TaVona suggests processing your emotions around recent events and honor the feelings we, as coaches, often feel we have to ignore or compartmentalize.
  • Why we hold onto our thoughts and beliefs and why we need to be okay with letting go of the ones that don’t serve us.

Listen to the Full Episode:

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Full Episode Transcript:

Welcome to the Make Money as a Life Coach podcast, where sales expert and master coach Stacey Boehman teaches you how to make your first 2K, 20K, and 200K using her proven formula.

Stacey: Hey, coaches. I have TaVona Boggs with me here. And I’m so excited today because, TaVona, I think has a business that really supports my business, in that it really blends well with it. I don’t know if that’s the right word, but it really blends well with it because I see what you teach your students and a lot of the students who want to join my mastermind or who join 2K. It’s an experience that I see all of the time.

So, I’m not going to say it in my words. I’m going to have you say it in yours. Introduce yourself. Tell everybody who you are and who you help in your business.

TaVona: Yeah, well thank you so much for having me, Stacey. I am TaVona Denise, TaVona Denise Boggs, PT. I’m a physical therapist by trade and it’s gotten mixed up because, when I went to help women in healthcare, we have to be called by our official name and degree. So, it’s TaVona Denise Boggs, PT. But what I do is help women in healthcare who are afraid develop the confidence to transition from patient care into fulltime coach.

Stacey: Yeah, and I see that a lot in my business. I have so many clients who are very successful in healthcare and they want to reach in a different way and they want to help in a different way and they want their coaching businesses to get off the ground. And they really do get stuck.

And I’m curious what your thoughts is as to why they get stuck. What I see and experience is that it’s truly an identity crisis. Like, you have to unbecome who you are and then rebecome someone new. And it’s hard to let that current identity go. But is that what you experience with your students as well?

TaVona: Oh, 100% I developed a whole model called The Confidence Loop behind it because, as I was coaching people and I was giving them the basics of business, like you need to understand branding, marketing, sales, all of that, something would happen where once they finished with that education, they would go off and try to get another certification or they would go off and start telehealth, which is something that’s very similar to what they were doing but doing it online.

And I couldn’t figure out what was going on. And I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s 100% that identity crisis because many of us have had these thoughts, “I spent $100,000 or more to get this degree. I should be grateful that I make all of this money over here.”

And we are so used to – and that’s actually how my podcast, Breaking Protocol came to be, because we are so used to, in healthcare, following protocols. Like, somebody tells us what we do and then we go do it because, if I work in a hospital, I literally could kill somebody.

And so, there’s an extreme fear of not knowing the how, which I think is what you talk about so beautifully is just know what and don’t worry about the how. But they become paralyzed and stuck in that. And so, that’s what I see a lot with people. And it’s really what we have to do is then break down that identity and show them a new way and really show them how to trust their instincts again.

Stacey: Yeah, that’s so good. I love that so much. I even – it’s so funny, when you said 100K education, I’m like, I felt like that about myself and I didn’t invest – I mean, I didn’t have any, sort of like, medical license. I didn’t invest anywhere near that amount. But it still felt like – I don’t remember how much it was, but if it was 50K or whatever or 20K, I don’t remember, but I still felt like I had invested that much money.

And I see a lot of my students go into that where they’re like – or they’re currently in school. They’re in nursing school. They are in PT school. I had a couple of those. And they realized they want to be a coach but they’re like, “Wait, I’ve already invested all of this money into this. I have to see it all the way through, then work a couple of years to tell myself that I am making use of the decisions I made in the past.”

But that’s not really what they want to do in the future. So, what would you – I think that could be interesting, that the people that are in that boat, let’s rewind, the people that are still in school who realize they want to become a coach or they’re already becoming a coach, they already have a coaching business, but they’re still in school, what would you say to that? What are your thoughts on that? I know it’s loaded.

TaVona: Oh, my gosh. You’re wrong for that, Stacey. That’s like – that’s a challenging one because what I find is it doesn’t stop. So then, you carry that out further. Then they got the job. They’re working for a couple of years, but they still have the 100-some-K in debt and they’re like, “well I’ve got to pay the debt off. I worked for this degree. I’ve got to pay the debt off first before I can go to coaching.”

And then, if you’ve been doing it – I’ve been a PT for 18 years. So, if you’ve been doing it that long, you’re like, “You know, everybody knows me like this.” And so, everybody’s so mired in the degree and the title and the identity and how society looks at them.

Stacey: How their parents look at them…

TaVona: How their parents look at them. If the parents paid for it, right, so they’re thinking about that. So then, it makes me think about, who do you want to be and are you still able to help? And so, I learned this so much from you and Brooke and other coaches, like, okay if it’s about paying off the debt, if that’s really what it’s about, let’s go make some more money and pay off the debt.

If it’s really about helping the people, which is why you got into the profession in the first place, let’s really think about how many people you can help, exchanging one hour of your time to work with one patient, versus creating a platform like you have, Stacey, where you have 6000 to 8000 listeners per week. How many people can I help then?

And really start to unpack that and really look at, for many of us, I got into healthcare thinking I was going to help people and realized that was really working for the corporations, working for the insurance companies. And then, how much more can I be of service to prevent injury and illness? Can I create that legacy for myself? So, those are the things that I would ask people to consider. What could you be creating, versus what you’re giving up?

Stacey: Yeah, and what would you say when they – I’m just thinking of some of the things my clients have said to me in the past – how would you walk them through feeling like they’re quitting on something?

TaVona: Really and truly, seeing how you’re building on something. Because one of the – in terms of the physical therapy world – one of the arguments that I see so often is that they have so much education experience that they know what just the general coach might be misunderstanding based on their coach training or what have you.

And so, how is that giving up, when you’re just taking and building upon? You never, never, never dump the information that you have in your brain. You never do. So, it’s just the scaffolding or the foundation upon which you build.

Stacey: Yeah, that’s so good. Okay, so then what would you say about – this is another one that comes up – but this is more – I’m trying to think of the word I want to use. There’s more security. Like, I can guarantee myself that I’m going to make money with this and there’s no guarantee with having your own business.

TaVona: “Is that true?” is my very first question. Is that true? And honestly, because I have a very good friend to this day who has never practiced as a physical therapist because she didn’t pass the licensure exam. No fault of her own. I also have a friend that never passed the bar, so she’s never practiced as a lawyer.

Now. They’ve gone on to do amazing things by themselves but there still are no guarantees. And so, let’s say that you did pass the licensure, you got a job, so then COVID hits. How many of the people are actually out, in terms of physical therapy? Maybe not nurses, maybe not doctors…

Stacey: But a lot of nurses and doctors too. Like, a lot of them. If you weren’t considered essential, you’re on furlough.

TaVona: Exactly, I know some doctors that maybe worked in radiology, their hours got cut quite a lot. And depending on what department you work in, you may not be essential, so you’re furloughed. So, to question everything, is that true? And do you want to live your life in fear? That would be the other question. Like, what if it actually works?

Stacey: Because they already want to be coaches, right? They already want to have – is it just coaches you work with? That’s what I was thinking. Or is it anyone that wants to have a business that transitions from healthcare?

TaVona: I’ve found that, for me, I work the best with people that want to go into coaching and consulting, where you literally take your education and your expertise and just package it.

Stacey: Yeah, and I think we have a ton of listeners who are in that exact boat. Because I think it is so – this is what I see as the bridge is people get into healthcare to help people. They find coaching. And now, I think even with Brooke’s community, so may doctors and healthcare professionals are becoming so successful that people are starting to see, “Wait, I could actually have greater success beyond… not just the same success, but greater success beyond what I have now.”

And so, I think those two combined, how big her community is getting and then already having that heart of service mindset, I think, there’s so many healthcare workers that are wanting to become coaches or already are coaching, kind of like on the side. They’re kind of building both. And so, I think that I just have so many people listening that are in that exact boat.

So, when someone hires you, what do you find are the biggest things that are in front of them between going from where they are, working fulltime, to transitioning fulltime into a coach and running their business fulltime? What are the biggest things that you think are in the way of that for them?

TaVona: I think it’s in really three big buckets. So, the first thing that’s in the way, 100%, is mindset. Like, if you think you can, you can. If you think you can’t, you’re right. So, there’s that. And we talked a lot about that.

The second bucket is really just the logistics of the lifestyle piece, managing your own time and money. So, a lot of us have just been told how much we were going to get paid. We’ve just been told when we’re going to work.

If you’re a nurse, it’s a 12-hour shift. You have no say so in the matter. If you’re a doctor, you work seven on seven off. So, for a lot of us, we don’t know – we don’t even know what to do if somebody says, “Here, do what you want to.” So, they don’t even know how to do that.

And then, with money, they often think that they have to fully replace their income. And I say, run the numbers. So, how much do you actually need to transition out and feel that security that you think you need? Is it, for sure, 100% replacing your income? Or do you need a little bit less? So, that’s the second bucket.

And then the third bucket is we weren’t taught to build businesses in school. So then, we need to actually learn the logistics of running a business; how do you get clients? How do you create a simple coaching offer so that you’re not running yourself ragged, you know how to predict your income?

I think a lot of us, they just want to transplant from patient care to coaching and, like, “Okay, I make $100 an hour, so I’m going to charge $100 for coaching.” But s that sustainable? How many of those $100 do you need to actually live?

And so, we talk about what do you actually need? What is the lifestyle that you want? How do you best function in terms of, like, are you a sprinter? Are you a marathoner? How do you need to set this up so that you’re not creating a similar situation for yourself? Because let’s be clear, Stacey, a lot of us look to coaching because we’re burned out.

Stacey: Yes, I mean, I felt that for me. And it was not even burnout of the work. It was just burnout of doing something that didn’t feel like it was fulfilling my highest purpose.

TaVona: 100%

Stacey: You know, I think that, to some degree, do you think that healthcare professionals, coaches as well, at some level have to recognize that they’d also feel that way about what they’re doing, otherwise they wouldn’t necessarily be looking for a different place?

TaVona: For sure. So, one thing that I do have to coach people on, because I originally got into this space with a burnout resilience program. So, I helped healthcare professionals with burnout. And what I realized was, once I helped them with burnout, they could go to about the 12 to 15-year mark and then they hit that space of, “Wait a minute. I should be doing something more. This is the same old same all day and I feel called to do more, be more, help more. And I don’t know what to do.”

And they shift from burnout, they learn how to manage their mind and get past that. And then they become the expert and there’s no growth. And so, they feel bored. And that’s the part that I don’t think enough people talk about. You get bored and then you start seeking because you want to be fulfilled, if anybody’s familiar with Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. So, we did the basics…

Stacey: I’ve never mentioned that on the podcast. So, do you want to tell them what that is really quick.

TaVona: So, Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs basically says the base layer is we need food, water, shelter. And then, there are five levels, but we need connection. And I can’t remember all of them, but the top one is basically expanding into the highest version of ourselves. And so, a number of us, after you’ve met the security, safety, connection, and all of that, it’s like, what else?

And there is no space to grow into that for many, many people in healthcare. So, what I’ve found – and it’s really kind of creepy – after around 12 to 15 years, we hit that level across all disciplines, and then we start seeking more because we’re kind of bored.

Stacey: Yeah, I love that so much. I also love – we get this question a lot, like when to leave the job. And I think that it’s different for every single person. I love your take on do the math. That’s what I would say also is, for me, I want to get clear of the job as fast as possible, but I wanted to make sure that I was able to invest in my business, invest in having a coach, having a business coach. Anything I needed for having a business.

I always talk about your business being your baby, so I’m like, how much do I need to take care of the baby? How much do I need to take care of me? That’s my bottom line and the fastest I can break free and be at that bottom line, like, that’s what I’m going to do. And I see that. A lot of people getting stuck in there’s a right number or there’s a right time or a right amount of clients in order to do that.

TaVona: No, and I think that goes back to the, quote unquote right. To me, when I’m doing coaching with people, I think my antennas go up when I hear right and should. If I ever hear those two words I’m like, “Let’s think about that for a second.”

Because I think there are really three transition steps. Either you’re one that’s just going to jump straight in and fly birdy fly. Or you’re going to tiptoe, sometimes called a side hustle. Or you’re going to bridge, like I did. So, I worked about half and half, 32 hours in the hospital and basically the other three days on my business for over a year to get it where it is.

So, you have to understand, if you think about investing and risk tolerance, what is your risk tolerance? What is your runway in terms of do the math? If you want to jump all in, go for it. Either you need to calculate how many clients you need or if you have some runway, like, how much money do you have in savings? How long will that last? And you build a plan around that. So, just understand that.

Stacey: Yeah, I also think it’s important too – and you can tell me what you think about this – to consider what you also, like… how did I teach this the other day? I’m trying to think of the term I used. It’s escaping me now. But whatever it is that you think will make it easier to build your business – so, for example, I was thinking about your buckets, like, if you think, “I just had more time then I would be able to build my business…” I think it’s so important to work with a coach like you to first clean that up before jumping ship. Because they’ll jump ship because they haven’t cleaned up their time. But then they don’t use it well in their business either.

They’re like, “Oh, I have all this time and I still don’t know what to do.” If it’s around money and money scarcity, you have to clean that up because even when you make the amount of money – and I just coached Sade on this in the 2K group, where it’s like she’s making a ton of money in her business but she still doesn’t want to leave because she has a little bit of that scarcity of what will happen if I stop signing – she’s making $8000 or $9000 a month and she’s like, “What will happen if that dries up? I don’t want to let my family down.”

So, there’s this, like, that layer of even when I have the success, if I have any sort of money scarcity at all, I will feel that even in my business, even as I make money. And then if I’m thinking that once I have all of my business plan and foundation laid out and everything is very clear – I was coaching someone on that. She wasn’t a healthcare professional I don’t think, but in LCS this week, she was like, “Once I have a business plan then I can sign up for LCS.”

I’m like, “What? It’s the opposite. You’ve got to get your business plan from LCS. Like, go through entrepreneur track and they’ll give it to you, right?” So, it’s like, once I have this thing, then things will be easier and better. And so, I think that they have to even clear up that, all of those things before they even make the decision for when it’s the best time and what factors will they use to decide, don’t you think?

TaVona: 100% and I’ll use my own personal example that I will never, ever, ever forget this. Because Brooke coached me on the time issue as well. My thought was, “I can’t build my business because I have to go to work.” And when I had that thought, I felt resentful. And when I felt resentful, I would complain about it, talk to people, all of these things other than do the work. And the result of that being I still had to go to work to pay my bills.

And so, once we were able to clean that up, not only was I not resentful of the job. I stopped feeling burned out. And then, when I did have time at the end of the day, I also had energy to do the things to get out. So, you’re 100% correct. We look at if you think it’s time, let’s clean that up. if you think it’s money, let’s clean that up.

Because I just coached a lady earlier today where she has all this money, she’s like, “I’m good.” But then stuck in the scarcity mentality. So, it’s so interesting. And what I posted in your group about it, it was the belief. I believed more to get me to this place, not necessarily strategy, because you have to – there is a balance between the mindset and the mechanics of business. There has to be. And if you don’t believe us, just try to do the mechanics without the mindset and just try to do the mindset without the mechanics.

Stacey: Yeah, I was blown away by that post. It was so thoughtfully articulated and I knew it was going to help so many people. We’re going to have that in our IG later this week, so it will have already come out when this podcast does. But I really loved it for so many reasons and I want to pull it up really quick because I want to read it exactly how you said it.

That you also said, “For those of us in the group who may be just becoming aware of thoughts that it’s okay for others to have a six-figure business but not for you, or it’s easy for others to make money but not for you, I’d like to offer you my thought; it’s okay for you to have everything that you want.”

I love that so much and I think, doesn’t that tie in a little bit into all of this? We’re like, I think a lot of my students too were in this healthcare profession and they’re making good money, but they’re like, “This is the only way I could do it too.” They’re like, “I found the way.” And there’s not multiple ways. It’s like, this is my way. And I think that speaks so true to what so many of my clients face too. What are your thoughts on that?

TaVona: Well yeah, here’s the thing though. I found, quote, the way, and it’s also killing me. So, when you asked earlier, what was one of the things? Like, I know a number of healthcare professionals making 100K in their day to day life. But like you said, they followed this path, they followed this protocol to that and now their eyes are sometimes shut to other ways.
So, if we could shout from the rooftops, like, “There’s another way, look, we’re over here…”

Stacey: Well, because it’s so action-focused though. I think that’s what I meant to also say is when you’re action-focused and you’re not seeing the depth of the thought work and how it influences every decision you make, it does kind of feel like there is only one way. It feels like there’s only one way to making the money, there’s only one career, there’s only one plan. That’s also why they get stuck in the right, right? Like the right business plan, the right schedule for my time, the right amount of money, the right time to leave. It’s all just very stuck in the how, in the what you do, and not accounting for the level of thought work required to do anything, create any result that they want.

TaVona: And I think that’s part of the reason why I called my program the Courage Circle, because…

Stacey: That’s so good…

TaVona: Thanks, because I think that they want more confidence in order to get started. That’s what a lot of them think. And I’m like, “No, boo, you need more courage to start and keep going.” Because the fact is, you didn’t know how to be a doctor. You didn’t know how to be a nurse. You didn’t know how to be a physical therapist until you started doing it.

And so, what I try to do is help them make that parallel and see and just keep going around the loop and just know that this is all a part of the process. It’s supposed to go that way. Nothing has gone wrong here.

Stacey: Yeah, so good. Is there anything else? I feel like we just covered a ton of ground. When you think about your clients that, I’m sure a lot of them are listening right now on my podcast, they’re coaches, they want to make money. When you think about them, is there anything that we haven’t covered yet that you really want them to hear?

TaVona: I think it really comes back to tapping into why you get into healthcare in the first place and asking yourself, are you still fulfilling that mission and is there possibly another way that you can do that and feel fulfilled, and have more fun? I think we get stuck in the “Or” mentality. I can be a coach or make money. I can do this or that. And I would ask you to ask yourself, can you do both? Like, is there a way? Just ask your brain, is there a way to do both?

Stacey: Yeah, that’s so good. And I also think – this is what I was just thinking when you said that, what popped into my mind is that could you believe that you could be much more successful at coaching than where you’re at now? I think it was Brig that has, like – she was making hundreds of thousands of dollars in her career.

And I’m sure she wouldn’t mind that I share this because we’ve talked about it so many times, where she would be like, “My coaching business, even in my first year, may not be able to be enough to surpass the income I have.” And I keep telling her about, how much money are you leaving on the table when you think about that? Like, what’s available in the world? If you can make several hundred thousand dollars in your career, could you make several million as a coach? Is that possible?

TaVona: So good, I love it.

Stacey: Okay, so, we’ve covered the time issue, we’ve covered the money issue. We’ve covered that you help them with this business plan, how to get all their stuff going…

TaVona: All of it.

Stacey: You’re going to help them with selling too, right?

TaVona: Yes.

Stacey: you’re in my program, so you better.

TaVona: Oh, of course. And so, I’m just going to give you a sneak peek how – forgive me, Stacey. I had to adapt for my healthcare peeps because one thing that I realized, because I was still in the hospital when I took your program, is that if you think about how you do an evaluation or assessment on a patient, it is exactly what we’re doing in the 2K for 2K process.

So, I need to know – we call it SOAP. So, I need to know, what is the subjective? Like, what is the person experiencing? How do they talk about it? And then objective, how is it actually affecting their lives, maybe in dollars and sense, pain scale, what have you? And then, what is my assessment of the problem as I see it? And then, what is the plan.

And so, if you can just transpose 2K for 2K to the SOAP method then sales is easy, and that right there has helped so many of my colleagues. They’re like, “Oh, I know how to do that.”

Stacey: That’s so good, yes, I love it. I Just thought of another one when you were talking. This is one that I feel like, I can’t believe I haven’t already talked about it. I’m thinking of, like, where do they get stuck in their brain? And this is the one I get the most, that I get a little stuck in my coaching. Not that I can’t coach them on it, but sometimes I’m like, you know, I’ve never experienced that problem.

So, when you haven’t experienced the problem, sometimes it’s harder for you to coach on it. So, some of them will say, “Because of my work, I can’t post on social media. I can’t grow my business while I’m also, as a healthcare professional, I also can’t be online. So, how do I get clients?” Do you help them with that?

TaVona: All my clients, with the exception of on, market online.

Stacey: So, it’s just, like, a thought that they’re having?

TaVona: Yes.

Stacey: I love that, I wish they could see your face. You’re like, “That’s not even a thing.”

TaVona: But you know, that’s too funny. So, I had to start, I’m an old school coach, so I’m used to doing the phones. And my clients were like – because we do accountability calls on Zoom – they’re like, “Can we start doing our one on one calls on Zoom because your faces, we live for those.”

Stacey: It was so good. I wish they could have seen it. I don’t know that – they sell it to me really hard, like it’s a thing.

TaVona: No. It’s not a thing.

Stacey: I love it. And if it is, you guys will figure it out.

TaVona: Absolutely. Like, I’ve had attorneys and – so, my thing is, because I’m still very left-brain, like many of them, so don’t get it twisted, I’m a logistics person, strategist. Okay, what is the problem and how do we solve it? Because that’s what being an entrepreneur is about, being innovative and solving problems all day.

So, okay, are you having a problem there? All of my clients, I have it set up so they get legal advice from an attorney. Is that your issue? Let me find the person that can solve that, no big deal.

Stacey: Yeah, so good. Okay, so as we near our time ending – we still have a little bit of time – but I’m wondering if we can speak about this because I’m thinking about my students who are coaches, they’re healthcare professionals, they’re going to listen to this podcast. It’s like the Week of Six time, so in a week – and there’s a lot happening in the world. And I know the coaching community – you know, you’re in 2K, they’re already struggling with all of the feelings that are coming up now in the world.

And I imagine my students who are your ideal people, they have a fulltime job, they’re serving people all day long as healthcare professionals, they just went through COVID. They’re trying to build businesses. Now we have three horrible murders and so much pain happening in the world. Can you speak to, how do they deal with all of that? How do they stay focused? What can you give them to kind of help them through this exact moment in time?

TaVona: That’s such a good question because what I see here is an opportunity for us to connect with something that we have had to put in a box as healthcare professionals. And by that, I mean our feelings. One of the things that we basically – maybe I was taught just by being around it is that it’s not okay to feel. Like, you must be objective in this situation.

And so, if nothing else, I would give you permission, if you can give yourself permission to feel all the feels and process them through. If you need to cry, go ahead and cry it out. Don’t be in isolation. See if you can find somebody that you trust to tell how you really feel and take the mask off. Because I think that’s more painful.

It drains us emotionally more than anything else and if you don’t trust anybody to share these things with, then one of the exercises I have clients do – and this was before COVID, before all of this because we take so much home with us. Many of us are empaths. Just keep a journal in the car and, at the end of the day, you just set a timer, five or 10 minutes, whatever you feel, and just write anything that pissed you off during the day, anything you wish you had said, all of it.

Get it out because, if you don’t give your brain the opportunity to get it out, you’re going to hold it in. and it is so much like a beachball that you try to hold under the water. It is incredibly difficult while you’re doing it and you’re going to burn out. And then, when the beachball comes up, I promise you, it’s not going to be a little bit. It’s going to be an explosion.

And so, just that simple act of taking the time to write down all of the things and then closing the journal. Like, I don’t know what it is about that, but I’ve given it to so many people over the years, even when I just did burnout, that that gives them some closure for the day. And doing it in the car before you drive home – you’re welcome for the spouse. Your spouse will love you because then you won’t have to dump on them because your brain has been heard for the day. So, that’s what I would give you.

Stacey: That’s so powerful. That makes me think, that is what coaching is too. When you get to get on the phone with your coach – and I know that coaches are the ones listening, but I feel like we need to hear this the most, is like your brain needs to be heard. So, whether it’s in front of someone else or if it’s on paper, that’s everything, to just get it out. And I love the idea of closing it too so that you’re like – I love it. it’s so helpful.

What would you say to the people who feel like they’re not compartmentalizing well? Like, some people react and compartmentalize – and by the way, this is not just for healthcare professionals. We’re coaching a lot on this in 2K. All coaches are feeling like, even as coaches, that they have to compartmentalize their feelings because they don’t matter and they’re not important and they have to help their clients. Which you know is, like, the hardest place to try to help someone is where you’re not even helping yourself first.

But for the people who – so, there’s those people that compartmentalize and don’t let themselves be heard and don’t let themselves talk. And then there’s the coaches who are actively feeling like they can’t get out of bed and they are struggling to breathe and function throughout the day. I’m seeing a lot of that as well. What is your advice there?

TaVona: I think it’s much of the same. Find somebody that can shine that mirror. Because I think, sometimes we’re spinning out and saying things that don’t even make sense, or believing things that don’t even make sense, that aren’t true, that aren’t helpful, all of those things.

And so, when they just spin around in our brain, there is no reprieve. But if you either take the journal – sometimes I have people voice record if they’re like, “I don’t want to write,” you can do so many things. I think it’s really helpful to get it out and not have shame around feeling because it’s being a human. And I think again, where we were taught to just be objective, it’s okay to be a happy human, but it’s not okay to be a sad human. And so, all of it is okay. Again, going back to giving yourself permission.

Stacey: I just feel like that is what 2020 is trying to tell us. You must feel your feelings. Like, we’re just being called to experience emotions at a higher level than we’ve ever been asked to before and jointly together and also in a way that feels, for  a lot of people, separated and doesn’t feel like we’re all feeling it together and this is what we were talking about before we hit record, like, that this is the reckoning. This is the time, this year, where we’ve got to just get it all up and get it all out. And I think, as coaches, everybody listening, we have such an opportunity to do it ourselves first and then go help other people do it as well.

TaVona: Yeah, I think there’s an opportunity too in addition to just journaling and all those things. It’s okay to be vulnerable and say, “You know what, I’m nit okay.” And I think we have that opportunity now and I think, as healthcare professionals, we have somewhere made up this story that it’s not okay to not be okay. And if you’re not okay, you better not tell anybody.

And the same thing with coaches because they hold us to a certain standard as well. And I just tell my clients, I’m real. I needed a minute and I processed and now I can serve. And that’s okay too.

Stacey: I know, what is it about coaches where we’re like – maybe people misunderstand what I’m coaching on sometimes when I say be the expert. Because I also talk about being the student. And I think this is what I mean by being the student is we don’t have to have all the answers and we don’t have to be, like, this perfect example of happiness or that we’re doing it well.

I’m even seeing that now in leadership, like leading from a place of telling a lot of my clients over the last couple of weeks, “I can’t tell you what you should do right now. I can help you with your thoughts, but I’m not the expert that you can look for to say exactly what I should be doing right now.”

And so, I think the coaching industry is almost – I don’t want to say plagued with it, because I don’t want anyone to have drama around it. But it is this unsaid thing of, you have to be okay all of the time and you have to be responding all of the time and showing up all the time and leading all the time.

And it causes people to not look at their own work and kind of push that aside or do a very surface level attempt at it, to kind of quickly get through it. And I have found, for me, this has been a very slow painful process. This hasn’t been this, like, sit down and coach yourself for an hour or get coaching on it and you’re good.

To me, this feels like the beginning of a journey that will have infinite time, that will never just end. And not in a bad way. Just like, there will always be work to do. What are your thoughts about that?

TaVona: Well, I have several thoughts. So, one thought is going back to trusting ourselves. Because we’ve, one, never been in a pandemic. I don’t know about you, Stacey, but I’ve never been in a pandemic. Then two, I’ve never had to deal with this stuff as an American that we’ve had to deal with on this level for this intensely, for this long.

So, who would be the expert? There is no expert. So then, what if we just assigned the title of expert to yourself and go within and figure out what you need to figure out and give your best answer with the best of intentions? There is that.

And then, the other part of hurrying up and trying to do the work, I think if we think about cleaning a house, like we want to Marie Kondo our house and we’ve been living there for 10 years, it’s going to get messy and yucky and terrible before it gets better.

Stacey: That’s the best example.

TaVona: We’re pulling out all the crap. It’s going to look like a hurricane went through our house and it’s going to suck and we’re going to be like, “Oh my goodness. Where was all of that stuff hiding? How did I get all of that stuff in there?” And then, when you do that process, then you can start to examine things. Do I want to keep this, or do I need to give it to Goodwill? Do I need to throw it away?

I can be nostalgic about some stuff. I can pull this out. I can put it in its place. But expect, if we can expect that it’s going to be messy before it gets better, then we can stop pushing against it.

Stacey: That is the best example I’ve ever heard so far. And you might laugh, but I actually worked with Shira Gill from LCS to come clean out my closet, and there are so many analogies in that. But when I think about, as coaches, we’re being called to question all of our beliefs and the way that we have led our businesses, the business decisions that we’ve made, you know, especially around diversity and inclusion.

And there are so many thoughts that serve me so well in growing my business up until now, and just like clothes that were in the closet that at one time really worked and then I was so resistant to letting them go. And Shira would try them on and she’d be like, “So, tell me, does it look good on me?”

And I would look at her and be like, “Okay, fine…” But it was so painful. I did not want to let my clothes go. We don’t want to let our beliefs go. We don’t want to let, like – I mean, we let a lot of stuff go. Like, stuff with tags on it, big expensive tags on it. she made me choose three very specific ways I would describe my style, and if it didn’t fit, we had to get rid of all of it.

And tags on, doesn’t matter, it all goes. And then, the work is not bringing any of that stuff back in, in the future. But then, this is also what I was thinking too is that, with the other stuff in the house, there’s baggage that our parents and our grandparents give us, as far as belief, and just things they give us. We also feel like we must keep them.

Like it would be dishonoring them that, I don’t know, we’re just so tied to the physical things that people give us. And especially if it’s someone that’s already passed and we have to do the work on the thoughts of letting all that stuff go, like all of it. Like, if I wouldn’t buy it now, if I wouldn’t use it now, if I’m not in love with it now, it has to go.

And I think the same is true for all of our beliefs and I think that that’s it. it’s like we’ve got to get all of it out of your brain first. So, that’s the part, like me having conversations with my students like you and listening to other suggestions I’m getting, like paying attention to the world. Watching everything, I feel like, it’s like getting all of the stuff out of the closet and seeing what’s there.

And then you have to start being like, “Who am I going to be moving forward? What am I going to do in my business? Who am I going to be as a business owner, as a coach? And then everything has to go that doesn’t align with that mentality. What are your thoughts around that? It’s so good. This analogy killed it. I just got it in a way that I’ve never gotten it before. You just helped me be like, “Oh, that’s it.”

TaVona: Yeah, that’s why it sucks. I would just say – I totally lost my thought right there because we were giggling. But there is a lot of work to do. And I think, if we could just be okay with it being messy and challenging, and to say – her was the thought – to say thank you. Because every thought or belief, at least in my opinion, that we have has served us in some way.

And so, I think part of the closure that we could get from Grandma or Grandpa’s items that they gave to us, like the baggage, is like thank you for doing the best that you could and teaching me what you had, and honor them in that way, and say, “But now I’m creating my new way.” Much like when people get married, they say, “Thank you for raising me, and now I’m creating my own family over here.”

Stacey: Yeah, and even saying that to yourself, like, at one point, this is very helpful for me and thank you, but now it’s time to adopt something new and to think about something new, and to learn something new. That’s so good. I’m so grateful to have you on the podcast.

I know this is going to help so many of my students and I want to just encourage everybody listening, if you are a healthcare professional and you do not have someone in your corner every single week listening to you and also inputting into your ear to help you make that transition and you are listening to this podcast, you need to go immediately hire TaVona.

TaVona: Stat.

Stacey: Stat. I’m not playing around. Now is the time. If you are a coach and you do not have a coach, you need to get one, 100%. And, you know, I had a coach all through my transition. There was one point where I had to coach through just walking in the door every day.

The more I fell in love with my business, the less I wanted to be at work. But I still needed work to make money. So, you know, it was like coaching all of the time on, “I choose to be here and I choose to go through this.” So, I just think you’ve got to have someone in your corner and you understand what healthcare workers are going through so much and can walk all of them through this transition, there is no good reason not to reach out and hire you for that.

TaVona: Thank you.

Stacey: Thank you for being on the podcast and lending your time and your voice and I’m just eternally grateful. Before we get off here, how can people find you. How can they reach out? We’re going to put in the show notes all of your information, but if they don’t want to go to the show notes and they’re like, “No, just give it to me now,” how do we get your information to them? Where do they find you?

TaVona: The quick and easy way is TaVonadenise.com. And from there you can find me at @TaVonadenise on Instagram and TaVona Denise on Facebook.

Stacey: And you have a podcast as well, right, you mentioned earlier.

TaVona: Yeah, the podcast is The Breaking Protocol Podcast.

Stacey: That’s so good. You remind me – I think you have to connect with Catherine Morrison. Because she helps employees go from employee to entrepreneurship and she always teaches that there is a specific mindset that you have as an employee. And I think that that’s kind of, you know, you’re just doing a very specialized area of that which is so needed because healthcare professionals make up such a big part of the coaching community.

But anyways, follow TaVona, go listen to her podcast. Get on her website. Sign up. Do you do consults?

TaVona: Of course, I do.

Stacey: Okay, sign up for a consult. Hire her. Now is the perfect time. Are there any last words that you want to share with my listeners? Anything we didn’t cover? Anything at all that you want to say?

TaVona: No, I think we got it. I think we got it.

Stacey: Me too. This was good. People are going to be like, “What? Nailed it.” Alright, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

TaVona: Thank you for having me.

Stacey: Alright, see you later.

Hey, if you are ready to make money as a life coach, I want to invite you to join my 2K for 2K program, where you’re going to make your first $2000, the hardest part, and then $200,000 using my proven formula. It’s risk-free. You either make your 2K or I give you your 2K back. Just head over to www.staceyboehman.com/2kfor2k. We’ll see you inside.

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