Ep #306: Balancing the Masculine and Feminine Energies in Business and Making 200K with Yann Dang

Welcome to the Make Money as a Life Coach® podcast where sales expert and master coach Stacey Boehman teaches you how to make your first 2k, 20k, and 200k using her proven formula.

Hey, coaches welcome to episode 306. I have one of my students on the podcast today and I’m so excited to talk to her and glean as much insight as I possibly can for you all as she has just crossed the 200k mark. So, without further ado, Yann, hello, how are you?

Yann: I’m well, Stacey, thank you.

Stacey: Will you introduce yourself, tell everyone who you are, what you coach, how long maybe you’ve been in business. And I’m actually curious, I was thinking about this, did you cross the 200k mark a while ago and then we set up the interview or did you just cross it and we had already set the interview? Because it’s been set up for a while and I wasn’t sure.

Yann: Yeah, okay, so I can share about all of that. So, I’m Yann Dang. I am a corporate leadership and life coach. I work with women in male dominated spaces, build lasting confidence and emotional wealth. So, I had over 20 years in the corporate world as a global finance leader. And I made the switch back in 2021, but that was also the same time I had my first daughter. And so, a lot has happened. I would say I officially started my business at the beginning of 2022. So right in the middle of the pandemic.

Stacey: Were you working from home then I assume?

Yann: Yeah, I was working from home and I had a lot of things happen at the end of 2020. I got married. I moved to Florida. And I had just started thinking about what I wanted to do next because I knew my role, there was a big acquisition or integration happening, so my role was going away. And I was trying to figure out what’s next for me as I explore what I wanted for my life.

Stacey: Did you have a baby yet? Were you pregnant yet? Did the exploring come from that or that happened after?

Yann: That happened after. So, it was 2020, I got married October 1, and we found out, surprised, we wanted to have a baby. So luckily, it didn’t take us very long, it was around Thanksgiving. So, about a week later, we realized that a baby was coming. And I also had moved from Chicago to Florida. So, there was just a lot of life changes happening in all of that time. And I think things were kind of opening up for me in terms of, what did I want next.

And one of the things I did in my corporate role that I loved was I was the executive sponsor for this women’s leadership group. Actually, it was just a women’s group in general, not even leadership, but we wanted to focus on leadership. And what I loved about it was coaching people one-on-one and connecting with them, and it created a lot of meaning for me. And so, as I was thinking about what’s next, I remember my husband being like, “Your heart’s not really into finance, you do it.” I did a great job. I loved being part of a leadership team. I loved managing my team, but I wanted to help people in a different way.

And so, I really see myself now as helping people bridge that technical expertise with emotional intelligence. And I was really drawn to your style too, Stacey because you were really masculine in some ways, but really feminine. And then I also think with motherhood, you’ve become even more feminine, which I appreciate because a lot of the women that I coach, oftentimes say, “We’re even more masculine than the men because we’re so good at doing the things.”

But as you extend into leadership and management, it’s so much more important to reclaim and embrace those feminine qualities. And it also feels weird and vulnerable sometimes because you’re like, “Well, I was supposed to be a robot, this is how I excelled.”

Stacey: Making me cry a little bit. [Crosstalk]. I love that. I think it’s so true. I don’t even know what the emotion was that just came up for me. But I think what I was thinking is how badly we need that. Because one of the things, I’ve been thinking about burnout a lot, so many coaches are afraid of burnout. And I do think that it happens when you stay in your masculine energy too long. And I do think women are kind of trained in society to be in that energy all of the time. We’re caretaking at home. We’re caretaking at work.

We’re just always the one taking care of everyone and there’s no one typically taking care of us. I just love this. I love the work that you’re doing. I love that you see that in me. I love that we can both model that really well for other people because that’s the emotion, I think it’s so life changing for women. Alright, there’s another one coming out.

Yann: Well, and I do think you’re really onto something, it becomes exhausting to have your full self at work. And then emotions, you never want to be the woman in the boardroom crying. So, there’s so much negative connotation about crazy emotions. But how do you use them in a way that helps you feel nourished and full and like you’re leaning with your whole self? So yeah, it’s kind of an exciting time in my life too, because I also had a baby last year.

Stacey: It’s so crazy, you had two children and created a 200k business.

Yann: Yeah. There’s some parts of my brain that are like, “Oh, I should be further.” But then I’m like, “No, I’m exactly where I need to be.”

Stacey: That’s amazing.

Yann: I wanted to answer your question too because even with this 200k, I think I shared I was part of the round when I had my baby, which was November last year. And in December, my goal for the year was 200k and I was at 192. This was so masculine, but I love how you were always like, “Don’t use your goals against yourself.” And I was also so curious, what am I making this 8k mean about me, about my business. It was just so interesting.

And then I shared on the Facebook community. I don’t know why, I’d been waiting to celebrate having a baby, even getting 192, just doing all this work. Where in my mind. I’m like, “It has to be the 200k.”

Stacey: And I’m guessing that nothing really changed between that 8K.

Yann: No, I mean, I think in my mind, even coming into this round or this year, I was like, “Well, 200k is inevitable, it’s just a rounding thing at this point.” But it’s been interesting because I was just looking at my numbers. And so, I did cross the line for my rolling at the beginning of October and then I was just looking at my numbers, today’s revenue. So, I looked at my numbers again today, and I had a big October last year, which I mean I’m ceding things for this year. So now I’m under the 200k but just by barely.

Stacey: Oh gosh, man, I get that.

Yann: And then I also wrote, just affirming myself, with receivables, I’m at 197 plus I did my first group launch, so I have 15k from just doing a group launch. And I have three months of maternity leave in that number.

Stacey: It’s so amazing, holy smokes. But I do think this is a conversation, I’m glad you brought this up and I didn’t even know that. But I think that this is a conversation we’ve got to have is, once we create the money the first time, then there’s maintaining it. And it’s so common for this to happen. It’s so common to have it kind of even for me on my journey too, I saw this a lot on my way to 10 million. I would get really close. I remember telling Brooke that I was going to be there, I don’t remember what year it was, maybe 2021. It’s the year I got married, but I was like, “We’ll be there by July.”

And then we didn’t get there until the next January because it kept fluctuating. And so, one month would drop off in the rolling 12 and then it would shoot back up and get really close and then it would drop off. And I was so frustrated because I felt I was just in that, we’re almost there for such a long time. It was very, very frustrating. And then I had a baby and I realized, there’s the difference of creating the 10 million and then maintaining it.

And what it was going to take to maintain it with my current business model was just something I couldn’t give anymore now that I’m a mom. And so now I’m rebuilding that back, but in a way that feels more sustainable and matches the lifestyle and the priorities that I have now. I don’t know if this came up for you, but for me it was just so starkly different how much time I had to work on my business, to think about my business. And even, I was still before I had a baby only working three days a week. But it was a very uninterrupted, maybe eight/ten hours a day of hard work.

And then when I was off, I was having time to coach myself and take courses and read. And now all of that’s gone and my day is interrupted like crazy. And so, it’s been having to even become someone that has an even higher level of focus, an even higher level of productivity. All of that has been kind of happening over the last two years. Now I’m just not even interested in having it unless it’s exactly the way I want it. But I do think it’s hard. I think it’s hard to get there and then maintain it and then have it in a way that’s really something you want.

Yann: Yeah. I actually have been into weight loss right now, since I had my baby. And I’ve been working on getting back to where I was when she’s one. So, I’m teetering back and forth, I have this. And then yesterday was just my birthday.

Stacey: Happy birthday.

Yann: Thank you. It’s been a really fun time for me in that, but then also I’m creating this in a sustainable way that works for me and my lifestyle where it’s at now. And that thought really helps me. Even when I think about my business, sometimes I compare myself with other people, but compare and despair, I coach a lot of people on that. And then I’m like, “But this is my journey. I had two babies. I moved three times.” Even within Florida, for my husband’s business, I changed careers completely.

Stacey: And also, just remember too, this is what I just realized too, that people I don’t think realize you also are transitioning to group. And I do think in that transition what has been common that I’ve seen for the last six/seven years of coaching coaches, when you make that transition, typically there is a drop in revenue because you’re also learning a new skill set. You’re learning how to sell group, which is very different than selling one-on-one and your energy goes there.

So more of your energy goes to figuring that out than actually being able to market and sell at your biggest capacity. And there is typically a revenue dip, but then it shoots back up. So that could also be a part of it, which is just super helpful to remind yourself. I just wrote an email that talks about the difference of, there’s a 200k one-on-one business and there’s a 200k group business and they’re very different businesses. And that is really, once you create 200k in one-on-one faster, you can do 200k in group. Suddenly now instead of coaching 20 hours a week, you’re coaching an hour a week or two hours a week.

And then you have all of that expanded capacity for you to go out and share your message and share your work and give value and connect with people. And then when you spend 90% of your time connecting with people and giving value and marketing and selling and less of your time actually delivering the product, that’s when your business really explodes.

Yann: Yeah, it’s a lot of different levers. And it could become [crosstalk] in different ways, plus, with family life. Well, you have [crosstalk] how quickly things change, pulling those levers or those transitions, making it all work. So, I launched my first group in August. It was the most work that I had ever done. I was putting my child to sleep and writing emails until midnight. And for me it was just, okay, this is my expanded capacity. I’m choosing to jump at this point in time.

And then I’m also right now launching a podcast. That will launch next week. So that’s another baby. I think about these things as a baby. You have to nurture it, while I’m serving my one-on-one clients, while I’m doing my first group. And then my whole family life, as you said, I’m not off work doing other stuff, self-coaching or taking care. I’m on mommy duty, so okay, let me go and I still find those things nourishing and what I want in my life.

But it’s a lot messier than I had when I was in my corporate role, which was also difficult. But it’s also, I can go for a long run or I can get a massage and I can take care of myself in a lot of different ways. It’s just a totally different ball game and so, I love my life. I love having created this business. And I was sharing, so I just turned 43, so I’m an older mother.

Stacey: Me too, it’s fine.

Yann: But I’m embracing it, I think I have so much more of my own emotional intelligence, so much more of a structure and network in my life now to have it be what I want even if I started my family later. One of the thoughts that really helps me in my business, in life is, I’m exactly where I need to be.

Stacey: Yeah, that’s so good. I really do think hearing you talk that you are in kind of the slingshot phase, where you’re pulling back, but you’re going to slingshot forward. There’s so much investing right now that you’re doing in your business, investing in a resource like a podcast, investing and learning how to pivot to group. And I just know that there’s this period where it’s happening under the surface and people don’t really see it yet. But you really do kind of compound that momentum in a big way. So, I would really expect that that’s coming.

And one of the thoughts that I have, I’m curious about how you think about it, but I do think it can be chaos to have a toddler at home or a baby at home and be running a business and actively growing that business, not just maintaining, but actively growing it. And one of the thoughts that’s really helpful to me is, I just think I’m going to look back and think this was the best time of my life. I’m feeling highly emotional today already.

We got home from vacation last night and the dogs always stink so bad because they play with each other the whole time the dog sitter’s here and my one dog, Bear, who’s a mixed breed just has the worst breath ever. And so, they always stink so bad when we get home. So, I told my husband he had to give them a bath. And he said when he got home for the first time ever, Bear, my 13 year old dog fell out of the car and Neil caught him. But he was like, “I think this was his last trip to the dog bath center.” And then this morning I was just watching him struggle so hard to lay down.

And it was washing over me that it’s happening very fast, how old he’s getting. I’ll get emotional thinking about it now. So, I normally get very mad when they bark and then just now I was like, “One day you’re not going to be here to bark.” So very emotional, it just hit me. He’s getting so old. Anyways, what were we saying before they crazily interrupted us?

Yann: I think you were talking about that I will look back at this time and the kids are growing, I’m growing, [crosstalk] for them. I have two girls and I often think about that too, of how I want to model this for them. But I do think., just as you’re talking about the dog and that emotional pull, my daughter got foot and mouth.

Stacey: Oh my gosh, it’s awful, hand, foot and mouth.

Yann: Yeah. And so I’m noticing myself leaving to go to the bathroom, seeing her without a nanny and her crying and just wanting that pull of emotionally wanting to just comfort her, but I have work to do. And then how do I carve out a few minutes here and be with her and know that mommy still has work to do. But I do think this is that emotional piece. We not only feel for our clients, ourselves, but then when you have these young ones in your family, it can impact your energy.

And so, I also appreciate what you say about energy. Sometimes on a webinar or whatever, I can really bring it really quickly and I feel it there. But I think there’s also that stretch of that increasing that energy or that capacity. Because I remember last week I had a webinar and then I had three one-on-one clients and I had consults and I was like, “My energy.” And then it’s into soccer practice with my toddler. There’s just all these pulls on your energy and having to stretch yourself, but also take care of yourself.

And also know that you’re human with lots of experiences while you’re trying to create a business. So, I’m just feeling sort of the messiness of it all, but also the opportunity in building the capacity.

Stacey: But I think sometimes you just have to, I don’t know, for me, I have to just embrace the chaos. This is what it is. This is a messy time. And I used to have shows when I was pitching in stores where the crowd would just be rowdy. I can’t even describe how rowdy some crowds would get in specific stores, just wild. I tended to be a very orderly pitch artist. I wanted things very the way they’re supposed to be. And any time I resisted and fought against crowds that just weren’t having that, I used to call it, you just never know what’s going to happen. You never know which way this is going to go.

But the times where I would just lean in and be like, “This is a tornado store.” Here we are, and it’s just never going to be a perfect show. It’s never going the way you want. Stores where employees would be interrupting you all the time and just craziness. And the more I leaned into it, the better I sold. And so, I think there’s a little piece of sometimes we want that orderly perfection. We want the exact right amount of time of sleep and the exact right amount of time of rest and the exact right amount of time to coach ourselves.

And we want to be able to do all these things perfectly. And instead, okay, I couldn’t make the live call today, so I’ve got to watch the replay and it was 90 minutes. And so, I’m going to watch it over nine 10 minute segments and that’s how it’s going to work. And if I just lean into that I think so often that resistance takes us out of the joy of the process which is something I wanted to ask you about.

So, I have been watching you and it will be interesting to see if you feel this way about yourself or if you notice this, because sometimes what we see someone else sees we don’t see or I could just be picking up on something that you don’t experience at all. But from having coached you for several rounds, how many rounds is this for you now?

Yann: I’m in the fifth round.

Stacey: Okay. So, I thought it had been a while. So, I’ve been coaching you for a while and there’s something that I’ve noticed that I think that you do well, or at least I perceive that you do well, that I think people could learn from is, you’re quite calm and methodical in the process, or at least it seems that way. And the coaching and the self-coaching when you ask for coaching on the page, just when I’m reading your stuff, when I’m talking to you. I don’t notice a big, and I’m not saying this is right or wrong for anyone listening because I tend to be someone that has kind of explosive emotions and really big ones and big highs, big lows.

But I do think that we’re in the revenue challenge, both the public one and the one in 200k, any time there’s a goal setting situation and people have really strong reactions to it. I’m always watching and thinking, what is that? And one of the things I was thinking today is, I think when you have really extreme reactions to creating goals, it’s because you don’t have a great relationship with the process, with the journey. And I’ve just seen you over the last five rounds apparently, really be methodical and calm and willing to work at it.

When we coach on your webinars, there’s just this willingness to get in there and do it without a lot of, at least, outward drama. And so, I’m curious if you pick up on that and if you do, what are your thoughts about the process? What are your thoughts about the journey that have really helped you kind of keep sanity and just keep going and work the process?

Yann: Yeah.  I do think one of the thoughts that I wanted to share here is that I’m in this for the long run. I think that helps me a lot. It gives me this abundance of time versus this drive. And I think a lot of this has been honed in my corporate life too of being able to be calm knowing that we are always a budget target, another target, something’s always coming up. Being able to look at it neutral and decide how you want to feel about it and how you want to move forward with it.

But also, still having the emotions and knowing that those emotions are okay in the process. But I think what I’ve learned a lot too is just not using the goal against me. And I will get into some of, you teach the low value cycle, I will get into that. I just catch myself very quickly now after three years of coaching and being, “Okay, I’m there.” And I notice I’m having these negative thoughts about myself, but I can bring myself back a lot.

So, there’s more of, I guess, a buoyancy about it. I can jump back into it. There are just a few things in my business where I felt really proud of myself. One is when I really went for the challenge because you did it a few times. I don’t know. I feel in the first round I was sort of figuring out my way, figuring out if I belonged. The biggest thing for me was just making the investment because that made me feel I’m serious about my business. I’m not just trying it on.

I think I had a lot of pulls. I had a great corporate life and I could have become a CFO for bigger businesses if I wanted that, but I knew for myself, I wanted to have this time with my kids. And the thing I always go back to though, one of my thoughts, go to, why don’t you go back to corporate because I don’t want to be putting my kid to bed and being like, “You ought to go to sleep, I have a board presentation to do or my CEO’s calling.” I’ve got to drop everything. Obviously I still have things that pull me.

Stacey: Even the ability to walk out of your office because this happens to me too. It’s so hard when they’re sick, oh, my God, and hand, foot and mouth was the worst ever. It was the most painful for him and the most painful for me because, yeah, they’re in so much pain. It’s so awful. And so, it’s awful when you’re like, “I have to work.” But I’m hearing my baby crying and they’re sick and all of the things.

But I try to think and also the fact that I even get to walk by. The fact that I get to figure out a 15 or 30 minute or hour window where I can go snuggle. Or the fact that I’m here because in any other situation I wouldn’t be, I’d be gone all day. It’s so big.

Yann: Yeah. And for me, when I’m done with work, we’re going to snuggle all night. It’s going to be me and you. I’m not worried about any urgent fires at work. So, I think that’s big for me of putting that bigger, broader perspective. But I remember when I did that first 25k in 30 days and it took me 77 days.

Stacey: Oh, my God, that’s so amazing. I’m so glad you shared that.

Yann: I know, and I remember you being like, “This is great. Next time you’ll do it quicker.” I remember, I did, I think it was 35 days. And then I had one where it was 14 days. And I was like, “It’s just kind of happening.” Not just happening, but I’m putting the work out there. And I think even when we’re talking about my up and down to 200k, I do really feel, right now I have 21 consults on the books and I have my podcast. I have things so I’m not in this, it’s not going to happen or making it all or nothing. I’m like, “It’s going to happen.”

And I think this is also the journey of motherhood. Sometimes they hit the milestones, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes they like the things you sign them up for, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they won’t eat. I don’t know. There is just this more embracing the unknown.

Stacey: Loose expectations. You have to have loose expectations.

Yann: But still having the progress and the standards. There’s still those milestones. There’s going to be tough times, but it’s being with it versus trying to force something. I see it in my work too. It’s that masculine feminine, you still want the task, but you want to be in relationship and you don’t want to push yourself. In my mind, and I think this is more in my corporate world, I was like, “I need to be here. I need to be here.” Versus now I’m like, “I want to be here and I’m okay with here and I want to get here, but it’s okay to be here too.”

So, I think giving myself that space also helps me when I look and think about goals in that way, that this goal is for me, it’s not to be used against me or to punish myself or to be mean to myself.

Stacey: And this business is for us, for me. I think so many coaches, they love coaching and they love the idea of being a business owner and having their own coaching business. And then they get into it, into the hard part of it and start experiencing failure and using their goals against themselves to believe things pretty terrible about themselves or say terrible things to themselves. And then it becomes this thing that’s no longer for them and then they’re resentful and then I have to do these things and my business is taking away.

One of the things I had to really overcome after I had Jackson was that my business isn’t taking away from my journey with him and my time with him. But my business is actually creating a lot of things that wouldn’t have been there if it hadn’t been there. And people have been asking me, “You’re so fired up lately and what is that?” That was one of the major thoughts for me is, just getting out of my business is taking from me and finding all the ways it’s giving to me.

And even in the journey, even in recreating a $10 million business that fits the life that I have now and the motherhood journey that I’m on because I want to have another one. And just seeing all of the ways that it’s giving to me. I love the thought that you’re building this business and you have two girls watching you. How crazy is it going to be that in a few short years they’ll be old enough to really remember stuff. And they’re going to remember that you had that webinar and they’re going to remember that you did three calls and they’re going to remember that you did a consult. They’re going to ask you if the person signed.

You’re probably not doing consults by then but they’re going to ask how many people you sold on the webinar. You’re going to tell them about people buying through email. Then you’re going to go to soccer practice and they’re going to remember that. It’s just the most incredible feeling to think about.

Someone was, was it Jenna Kutcher, I don’t know if you know who that is, but she does The Goal Digger Podcast. And I follow her on Instagram and she had this really awesome reel that said something about, don’t think about them. It was her daughter in her office playing on the floor while she’s working. And she’s like, “Don’t think about the time that you’re giving up for your business. Think about, you’re teaching your child to fight for their dreams. You’re showing them what it looks like to show up and work hard for something.” And that hit me so hard.

Just that’s what we’re modeling here. Yes, we’re not able to be with them 100% of the time and that is very difficult. But also, we’re modeling and showing them what it’s like to work hard for something and to go after your dreams and to do it when it’s inconvenient and to do it when it’s hard and to do it when it does sometimes take things from you. And we’re showing them emotional resilience, if we talk about failure to them and we get back up. And I think about all the conversations I’m going to have with Jackson when he gets older and all the things he’ll learn just from having a mom who’s an entrepreneur.

Yann: Even my daughter, now she’s three, and she’ll be like, “How was your meeting?” Asking me questions about it.

Stacey: So sweet.

Yann: And I think it’s important that they see that me and my husband, we work hard but we play hard and that this is part of life. And we also enjoy what we do for work. We’re not resentful of it. There’s of course, pulls because sometimes we want to be in two places at once. And logistically, it’s a lot, but it’s also showing them what it is to really live a full life, to still have the family and to still have the great relationships and to go after your dreams. I do think that’s super important.

Stacey: Yeah. That’s so good. Okay, so let’s switch gears because I have some questions I want to ask you that I have been just thinking about all the people listening a lot and how many interviews we’ve done of 200k earners. And I wanted to ask some different questions than maybe I’ve ever asked before that are going to just open up some mindset conversations that I think could be really helpful.

So, I’m curious and I know some of these are little basic questions, but I think there could be some really profound answers. So, I’m curious what you believe now at 200k and all the experience you’ve created that you didn’t believe before? Maybe at the beginning of your journey or on the way, because sometimes we’re trying to believe new things. We’re trying to believe new possibilities, especially if you haven’t created, I think at 200k, you realize, I’ve created a business, it’s here to stay, at some capacity, this thing is real now.

And I think you can think that at 100k too but at 200k, this wasn’t a fluke. I’ve done this. So, I’m just curious, if you think back to the journey, what are some of the beliefs that are solid now about you and your business that maybe weren’t there before?

Yann: And I’ve been thinking about this a lot more too, because sort of my [inaudible] always talks about your all time revenue. I’m almost at half a million for my all-time revenue. So, I think even in that thought, the thought for me is, I’m good at selling. I think that was really hard for me when I was in corporate, but then I also thought I’m selling a budget. I’m selling an investment, I’m selling. My CEO and I are trying to sell ourselves to get more funding for things.

So, I think bridging that has been difficult for me in the beginning because I was like, “Am I good at selling?” That entrepreneurship. And sales and finance in the corporate world always have friction, bring in the money but I don’t want to pay that much for it. But also, being really respectful of the sales engine. If you can’t sell, that is the lifeblood of our organization. And so, I think for me, it’s believing now that I can sell, that I am good at selling, versus, I don’t know about sales, I can do a lot of other things.

Stacey: So good. That’s so crazy that you said that because I am creating the next upcoming episodes of the podcast. And I was thinking about how I want to do on the power of believing you could literally sell anything to anyone at any price point. Not that you’re going to, but the belief that you can and what difference it makes for the impact that you’re able to have when you have that thought. And I think that’s kind of a version of that, I’m really good at selling.

Just in general thinking that, the first thing, the first benefit is that you get to sell what you actually want to sell. I think you’re in 2k. The things that I coach on in the 2k room, it’s so much of what they want to sell versus what they think someone will buy, which is very different. And when you believe you’re good at selling, you get to really sell what you genuinely want to sell, what you’re genuinely excited about, what you think will actually be valuable. You have so much choice versus let me think about what offer I could choose that will manipulate someone into getting a yes.

And they don’t really intend that but I want to ensure that I get the yes so let me find the perfect offer that creates that. And it’s what we start off with in the advanced selling book, this idea that if you could become really good at selling the world really opens up for you. So, I love that you had that thought. We’re on the same wavelength here.

Yann: Yeah. And actually, when I think about 2k for 2k because I have a few funds that are in it now. And I believe so strongly in 2k for 2k because I made 100k from 2k for 2k. I mean I watched that consultation, well, I think also I was so married to the process that my growth has been to let go of some of it.

Stacey: Okay. As you move on to webinars and things. Yeah, I love that.

Yann: I would do 90 minute consults, even earlier this year, now it’s 45 minutes. I was losing energy because I was just in that process. But there is that piece of seeing myself as somebody who can sell. And I think that it’s so interesting because in the corporate world, people are doing all this market research to come up with the perfect product a lot of times. And not spending enough time just in that thought work or in selling themselves on why it’s great and teaching people why it’s great.

I oftentimes think about even Steve Jobs. I think if he described the iPad or the iPhone to people, they’re like, “I don’t know, I don’t really want that.” Now everybody has it but why would I want this thing? But for you, when you love it, when you love the container and you learn how to sell it, that’s really bringing people on that journey. And I think starting my business and doing 2k for 2k, I just sold that package until I got to, I think you’d been a year and a half of just selling that.

And that was so incredible because I could have been spinning. I could have been testing the waters, all the different products, all the different packages. And just doing all of the things, trying to make it easy to sell versus learning the skill of selling and loving my offer and just doing it over and over again.

Stacey: Okay, so we have to just pause and make sure everyone heard that because you just dropped a huge nugget. The difference of making it easy to sell, finding an offer that feels easy to sell versus learning how to sell. I didn’t even say it exactly the way you said it, I felt like you said it perfectly. So, everyone just needs to rewind, hit the 10 second button a couple of times. But that was perfect. That is really the difference.

You can try to make it easier and bypass the journey of learning to sell and change your offer a million different ways to land on that perfect thing that suddenly no longer gets objections. Or you just learn how to sell any offer and you learn how to overcome the objections, you learn how to talk through those things. And it is a more confronting, uncomfortable process and also once you break through you have it for life.

Yann: Yeah. And I love that, you’re dependent on yourself and you empower yourself. And of course, one of the things you teach is turning it on and off versus being dependent on the perfect recipe. And talking to more people and being so externally focused that you’re just kind of spinning and running around changing your offer all the time, thinking that it’s going to be easier to sell.

Stacey: Yeah. I do think that there’s a lot of marketing people in the world, they do, do that, the whole marketing system not to be anti it. But I do think it was built on this idea that just it’s a numbers game. And even sales for a long time for many, many years, it was built on, it’s a numbers game. You just need to expose your offer to as many people as possible. And really what I think that, that is, there’s 20% of the people that are always going to buy, 20% that will never buy and 60% that could be not convinced but you could convince them, they could be sold.

I think that the numbers game is just playing off of 20% always buy. But I’ve been also thinking a lot about, because I have an entrepreneur series course coming out. And that is all about attracting your best clients and really thinking about how do you get really incredible clients. Well, it’s not in the just 20% who always buy because the people who always buy, always buy. So, it’s not necessarily a significant factor in them being your best person. And so, I think there’s a piece of that too. The people that are your perfect people, some of them will be that 20%. But just because they have a buyer’s mentality, just doesn’t mean that they’re your perfect person.

There’s a lot of perfect people in that 60% that could be sold. They just have friction, they have resistance, they have stuff going on in their life. They have obstacles they have to overcome in order to really get there. I think about me, I was not the perfect buyer necessarily when I hired my first coach or when I went to coach training, I didn’t have the money easily. I had lots of objections.

I had lots of difficulties and I was also most improved player. Every room I go in, I’m the most improved player. So, I think that’s so important to think about is just the skill of being able to have those conversations and be really good at selling. It opens you up to selling what you want and it also opens you up to having better clients.

Yann: As you’re talking about that, I think this again is where masculine and feminine play. It’s masculine to go after the numbers and of course, you need to get out there and do it. But the masculine can get you the 20%, the masculine with the feminine, the quality and the care and the way you do it to attract those people. That’s probably the difference between 20 and 50 or 60 or whatever. So, it’s the same action, but it’s doing it with that thinking about your person and really focusing and knowing how to talk to them in a way that brings them on that journey versus just doing more and more action.

And then for you too, as a leader, I feel the more I’m invested in my business, the more I feel full and that it’s meaningful versus, I just need to tick these boxes to make some money.

Stacey: Yeah, that’s so good. So, you said this a couple of times and I think everyone has kind of a different understanding or definition of it. But you’ve talked about the difference between masculine and feminine energy. What does it mean to you when you say feminine energy, especially when it comes to sales and offers in this context of the conversation? How would someone connect to that? If someone’s like, “I don’t know what she means,” how would you describe being in feminine energy with your offer and with selling?

Yann: Yeah. So, when I think about feminine energy, I’m thinking about qualities like collaboration, quality, my best client. I’m thinking about being in relationship and rapport with them. I’m thinking about nurturing them. And I love your three, your bi-cycle. You’re really nurturing them in the long run. And feminine is creative, it’s really creative and it could be very integrative too of thinking about the other person.

But I also think as an entrepreneur, some people stay in that feminine energy too much and they start spinning in the offers or the scenarios or the kind of circular thinking, which is helpful in the creative process.  But you need the masculine synergy of, have a goal, being focused as well.

Stacey: Let’s get this done.

Yann: Yeah, let’s get this done. So, I always talk about, it’s really the synergy of both that helps us and that synergy often comes from the vision of what you want to create is really feminine. And the masculine is in service, the action but it’s the action with intention. So, I know you’ve also been talking about the unintentional sales pitch too. But that’s trying to do the masculine of ticking the box without the feminine of being in it for you, for that person.

So, it’s really that integration and that’s how I coach people too. We have these energies and sometimes it’s exhausting and we don’t feel in relationship with ourselves if that’s out of balance.

Stacey: Oh, that’s so good. A good example, I think, of the masculine, I was just coaching someone in 200k or maybe it was in the 2k room but she’s also in 200k, but we were just coaching. I also think the masculine does, though, help you in your business, have boundaries and honor decisions and be in more control of your business. So, I think the feminine is, you’re right, all the creativity, the connection with your people, the relationship, the service energy, receiving energy. I’ve been thinking about that with the revenue challenge is, there’s going out and working hard for it, but there’s also being willing to receive that. So that is so important.

So, the coaching that I was giving this person was, she had a special that she was running. And she had talked to a client and said, “Hey, if you want to renew, I have this special, it’s for this specific month only.” And then the client had said, “Well, I’m feeling really foggy right now. Can we have this conversation on our next call which is in early November?” She was like, “Oh, yes, of course.” But then afterwards she had this bad feeling about it, but I actually only wanted the special to be for this month.

And this tends to be a client who spends a lot of time in feminine energy, which is so beautiful and calming and you love it. And also, you have to exercise the masculine if you want to have control over your business. So, I was giving her the example of, in masculine energy and I didn’t say it in this context, but I’ll say it here.

In masculine energy, the way I would deal with that is, say, “Listen, you can have all of the time that you want. The special is for this month and it would be this much in November. However, we don’t want you to make a decision from fogginess, so it’s not worth the discount to make a decision from fogginess.” So, I get to, in the feminine be in collaboration with the client, give them what they need, honor not wanting them to make a decision quickly and in fogginess. But I also in the masculine get to honor that the discount is only for this time.

And I think that’s so important because we want to love what we do, we want to have amazing clients, we want to love our offer. We want to have a great relationship with our business and we don’t want to be over-giving and crossing our boundaries and serving others at the expense of ourselves and giving more than we want to or more than we intend. And so that’s, I think another good example of balancing those out. I love this conversation. We could have it all day.

Yann: And I mean that’s one of the things that I appreciate about your coaching, it is balanced in that way. It’s people first, but we also have to run a business. And sometimes people like those boundaries, with their kids, they like boundaries. They need to have them otherwise they feel out of control. And so sometimes even having that boundary for someone else gets them really clear with themselves, because now you’re like, “Well, no, this is the playground and you’re safe in this playground and you have other opportunities.”

But I think that masculine energy is very protective too. It’s providing, protective for us and for them because there’s a line in the sand. We have to have that firmness too, to help people feel safe. Otherwise, they’re like, “This person’s just giving me whatever offer off of their mind and they’re not really thinking about.”

Stacey: Yeah. That’s so interesting.

Yann: And yourself because sometimes when you ask an offer and you’re kind of pushing the boundaries but you’re like, “Let’s see.” But I always respect people when they’re like, “No, that’s not my offer.” And I’m like, “Okay, I tried.”

Stacey: Yeah, me too. That’s so interesting, yeah.

Yann: You always try. You’re just kind of like, “Okay, what is it?” Because you don’t know where that line is, but you can always ask and figure out. Because I think even as being a CEO in my business, I like the fact that I get to check in with myself and say, ”Do I want to give a discount? Is this something that I want to do and why.” And having that relationship with myself where I can trust myself with that balance of [inaudible], okay, I’m willing to do it for these reasons and for me and for them.

Stacey: And that’s the beauty is when you have a really well balanced masculine and feminine in business. The other thing is, so for me, I do have pretty firm boundaries with things. And because of that, I have so much control in my business, so much perceived control that I don’t feel walked over all the time. So, it’s also easy for me to know when I want to make an exception. For example, we closed the revenue challenge and we even extended it and people have still been asking, “Can I get it in?” And I’ve been like, “Just email my team, see if they’ll say yes.” They’re for sure going to say yes.

And I think that that’s really powerful to be, I exercise the boundaries enough that I know also when I’m willing to make an exception. I know when I’m willing to go outside of the box and it feels good to me and it feels in service of both me and the client. And I think it’s hard to, unless you’ve exercised the masculine and feminine and created the balance and you have control and you’re coming from the established place of, I’m not always over-serving and I get to be served too and I know I have these rules and they work for me.

Then you get to go outside of it and it’s a little bit easier to go and pull yourself back. And so, I think that’s really helpful too, is it’s not really about the situation where it doesn’t matter if she gives the offer to the person or not a week later. I don’t think that’s the bigger picture but what I know the client is really working on is being able to have that control instead of feeling the business just kind of happens. And I’m at the mercy of where it flows versus I create the river, I make the path. So, I think that’s really helpful.

Yann: Yeah, because I think what you’re underlying is the more you exercise that and understand that balance, the more you trust yourself and the more flexible and nimble you can be. Because it does take you so long to think about something. You’re like, “Okay, I trust myself to make these choices.”

Stacey: Yeah, so good. Okay, this is going to be another ambiguous one, but if you could tell yourself something specific to save you time on your journey, looking back, you could tell your past self, something specific to save you time on your journey, what would it be?

Yann: I think for me it is, it’s not selfish to outsource. One of the things that I think about and I don’t know, I think this is more for my personal life than in my entrepreneurial life, but I think it’s been such a big impact. Even the first time of getting a babysitter or I have an au pair now and I’m like, “She makes my life easier.” She makes our whole life easier. She enables me to do the things that I want to do. And I think having a big life and having big goals, personal and professional, I think that there is a lot of judgment out there of how you should do it.

And I think I had it too before being a mother, I’m like, “I don’t know, they have a nanny all the time.” Or there’s a lot of ways you can judge it. But I think giving myself permission and I think I’m getting better and better at it of just being able to outsource things or make those choices, even if other people don’t agree. It’s just more about how I agree with it, I think would save me kind of a lot of that back and forth thinking about, am I a good mother, am I not? And actually, I went to your last live event and that was big because my daughter was only two months old.

Stacey: I know, I remember that.

Yann: Yeah. And I think for me it wasn’t proving something to myself, it was more giving myself something.

Stacey: Yeah, that’s so nice.

Yann: I’m giving this to myself, I’m making sure.

Stacey: I’m so glad you came because that was the last one at least for a while.

Yann: Yeah. And I think for me, I had to think about both of them and it took me a bit of time with those masculine and feminine things too. And I had that whole thing about, I need to bring my breast milk home. And even going through that, not having to be a traveling corporate woman working person. But it helped me also see my clients. Some of them have these struggles and how do you navigate that in a world that maybe is very masculine, but in your own way.

And getting what you need for your family and asking for help. I think it was a big thing for me. I think a lot of people on your staff knew about it. A lot of people were trying to figure it out in the hotel and I didn’t [crosstalk].

Stacey: Yes, I think I remember this, did we have to get permission, The Four Seasons had to store it for you or something? Or not The Four Seasons, whatever the hotel we were at, they had to store it for you.

Yann: They had to store it in their kitchen.

Stacey: I remember them telling me and me being like, “They better not lose that. Are they sure they’re going to take good care of it?” I was so anxious for you. I was like, “They’d better not mess this up. Are you sure no one’s going to throw that out?”

Yann: So, I think this is feminine piece too. And I remember you seeing me and asking me, “Is it figured out?” And this is not the type of thing, I think for me, being a business woman, if I was at some corporate conference, I would not have all these people coming up to me. I mean firstly, there’s a lot of women around so they’re just asking. But also, I probably wouldn’t feel as comfortable just being like, “Hey, I have this thing.” Maybe with my leadership team, if I had a lot of relationship.

But I think for me that was growth too. I need this thing and I’m not going to be apologetic about it. I need this done. But a lot of spaces women are in, this is not something you talk about,  it’s something you deal with by yourself.

Stacey: Let’s change that for sure.

Yann: Yeah. I think this is the whole world of my mission as a coach is to change that, to have more human spaces for people.

Stacey: Yes. Okay, this is the final one. And then I also I’m going to ask you to share anything that you wanted to share that we haven’t covered. But what do you think is the unexpected thing about the journey that people need to be prepared for. Something that is a normal part of the journey that maybe people would be caught by surprise or would think something’s gone wrong or this isn’t normal, but it actually is, is there anything that comes up when I ask that?

Yann: I think that it is harder than it seems, even being in the room with a lot of the coaches. I think there is a way you can have all these golden projections of people or an entrepreneur. Or I oftentimes think about people thinking about me when they see or when they see things. they’re like, “It just must be easy or this is great, you’re just out there in the world sharing your ideas.” It’s so funny, I feel like I’m quoting Olivia as well as a gag and go. I’ve had so much more gag and go with the group and with the podcast.

And just being in the space of, this is living that transformation. This is not just teaching people about it, this is being in it for myself. And I have a few friends I told you about in 2k for 2k. And I’m like, “Listen, I am there too, it’s a very neutral journey.” I’m like, “I know, I have made lots of money, but I’m also here.” And I know that people who have made, even people in your Two Million Dollar Group having been in the rooms, they’re there too. This is part of the learning process. It is the embracing, the being humble, learning, the willingness to learn and being neutral with everyone whether they’re at 2k or $2 million. This is how it feels all the time.

And I think your teaching is just really helping to embrace that, you haven’t failed. Sometimes my brain goes to, this isn’t working, I should feel much more in control. 

Stacey: Or it shouldn’t feel this hard, yeah. Feeling hard means that something’s gone wrong.

Yann: Yeah, feeling so stressed is, something’s gone wrong. But I’m expanding, I’m doing really new things. And I have to remind myself that this is part of the growth, this part of the expansion just like motherhood.

Stacey: I do think when I think about the combination of being a coach and an entrepreneur, I do think is a very special thing, this combination. And I’ve been thinking that, I do think we are pushing our brains to the absolute max of their abilities, capacities, capabilities. We are really asking the most of our brains, and I do think that it’s hard. We’re taking the intangible and creating it to be tangible. We’re helping people create real world change and it’s the hardest thing and we’re real world changing ourselves.

We’re rewiring our brains. We’re actually creating new neural pathways. We’re creating new belief systems. This is the hardest thing to do. It’s normal that it is hard. And even in business, I don’t know if you’re in this, but we created a Facebook page for the public revenue challenge. And I posted, I spent an hour or two writing out my value plans from the past challenges that I’ve done, from really simple challenges to the revenue challenge itself and selling that. And people were blown away, because they do think that it’s just easy for me. They don’t see how hard I work.

And of course, I mean, I do think that there are things, I have a natural very disciplined, very well worked skill set of selling, but I work very hard to get those sales. And I’m very creative. I go way beyond what’s required or necessary. I love to really go big when I sell. And so, people were just like, “This is literally worth the cost of admission is just seeing this. I had no idea.” And then some of them were like, “I’m realizing I’m definitely not doing this. I’m not putting that level of work into it.”

And so, I think that that is such a good one to tell people is that it’s harder than it seems and that’s okay, nothing’s gone wrong with it. We’re just doing big things and we’re asking big things of our brains.

Yann: Yeah, it helps me to see things in a broader perspective. I think this is one of the biggest things about being in your community, it’s doing it with other people and knowing that everybody’s at the same place in that journey. Totally fine. It’s totally normal, versus if I was a lone entrepreneur, I’d be like, “Are people struggling like me?” Because you only see what’s on the outside, that finished product, that looks so clean and polished.

Stacey: Yeah. Especially with social media, we only see the highlight reel. We don’t see the behind the scenes.

Yann: Yeah. When you see the family portraits and you’re like, “It’s so beautiful.” People are like, “Yeah, before that we were yelling at each other and we had headaches and there was a big [crosstalk].

Stacey: My favorite family portraits are the ones where somebody has a crazy face. Or we just got one at Disney with Jackson’s meeting Goofy and Neil’s holding him and his whole body is limp and freaking out. He looks in so much distress and Neil’s smiling and it’s the best. And there’s one from Italy where we’re trying to take a photo in front of the fountain in Lake Como and Jackson is not having it. And my nanny had snapped the photo right at the moment I decided, fuck his, we’re done and my face literally looks like, just forget it. And I’m mid getting up with just forget it face and Jackson’s going crazy.

And those are my favorite though because that’s reality. That’s the real moment that you’re going to look back and be like, “I remember that.” It’s the perfectly posed, smiling ones. You have a million of them and they all look the same. We’re all so happy. But the real ones, that’s when you’re like, “Oh, I remember that moment.” And then there’s a story behind it.

Yann: Well, I think that’s also, so now when I do webinars, I have lots of people who come and I have people who convert. But I still remember when I started doing it and I remember there were two people on it. When I clicked the record button, one freaked out and left and then there was just one. And I just remember being like, “I’m going to serve this person.” And she actually became a client. But I was also in that mindset, kind of how you talk to us about launching, this is for your next one.

And I just remember, I’m going to serve the crap out of this person. And just on my journey of webinars I’m like, “Yeah. Listen, I remember those days.” And I’m proud of myself for showing up for me, for the client and not just like, “Okay, forget it.” Did all the stuff and only one person showed. I think the thought also that helps me is, you have to start somewhere.

Stacey: So good. Okay, as we come to an end, is there anything that you wanted to share knowing that you were coming on that we haven’t touched on that you’re like, “They’ve got to know this?”

Yann: I think one of the thoughts that has helped me in this journey, and I had some thoughts about being in 200k for five rounds and I’m very proud of myself for it and the investments in it. But I think my earlier self would have been like, “You’re going to be in this for two rounds and that’s it.” But I think it’s also given me space, I had kids and I’m figuring it out and I still find the investment helpful for me, so thinking about that.

But I think the thought I’ve had throughout the whole way is 200k is an inevitable part of my journey. And then that helps with that urgency of, oh my God, I have to get here already. It’s just this is just going to happen and I just keep giving that work and I keep showing up for me and myself and my business and it will happen. So just trusting that process for myself has been really big. And I think a lot of people are wherever they are in their businesses.

Stacey: The last thing I will say that I think could be really helpful for everyone to hear. Because I have really stepped into this and embraced this, is this idea of there are times where we invest because we have the capacity to grow big. But then there are also times where we invest because the journey is really hard and having support is literally that one inch, that is a game changer, where it could be so much worse. So, I think about the investments I made in the last two years where I’ve been kind of trying to figure out where the business and the mom-hood and everything, how it works out.

And I’ve had a really hard time in my business and been not in a place where just until just now I haven’t been in a place where we’ve been actively growing. We’ve been fixing problems and restructuring and doing all these things. And I think about if I didn’t have help during this time, I don’t believe that the comeback would have been as fast or as big. I don’t know, maybe I would have just given up, I don’t know. And I just know that in those moments, it felt like life lines to have support.

And so, I think there’s an investing mindset that needs to be developed for all of us of, there’s times when I’m going to invest for massive growth and there’s times when I’m going to invest because if I didn’t, it would be so much harder. And it would take so much longer and the recovery would be so much less. And I think that is just as worthy as investing in the times where we’re growing. Even, this last investment I made was $90,000 for 12 weeks of coaching and we’re actively working on trying to have a baby.

And I remember telling the coach, “But what happens if I get pregnant and I’m in bed for 12 weeks and I have no space other than to take care of my current clients and I can’t do any marketing and I can’t grow at all?” And I remember that what she said was so powerful, is, “Yeah, but imagine if you didn’t have help during that time. Imagine if you aren’t getting your brain cleaned up. Imagine what it’s going to be like even if you are sick and in bed for 12 weeks but you’ve been getting coaching the whole time. What’s the difference on week 13?”

And I remember being like, “Oh, yes, that’s it.” Because it can either take me a really long time once I start feeling better to get back in it or I can just be ready to step back in it as soon as my energy and my health comes back. And the difference is going to be what I do in that downtime.

Yann: Yeah. And I think this is, when I look back to your last live event, I could have taken that round off and been like, “Well, I just had a baby.” That was my thought as well of, I’m going to use this time well.” And I like that you’re also, that ramp up is hard and takes time. So, I wanted to be in the room with you and the other women and the other mothers to be part of that bounce back and to also keep myself engaged. But also, to really protect my time and give myself that, even if I’m not actively working on my business, I have access to a community to support me.

So that brings back that feminine masculine too of, I care about my business, but I also want to protect that space of, this is bringing a new human into my life. And that investment was really for me to be like, “This is still important and I don’t have to do all of the things.” Just being part of the room and having people and having you think about this is possible. It just is all the difference of slowing down for a while versus even how I look at my numbers. I could be like, “I’m so behind,” versus, “I took three months off to have my maternity leave and that was downtime and that’s okay.”

Stacey: And still making 200k.

Yann: And I would always choose that. That’s exactly why I came into my business to do it, to not have that pressure.

Stacey: So good. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast and sharing all of your thoughts. I loved this conversation. So good, I just know everyone in the revenue challenge and just everyone in general listening is going to get so much from this, so I really love that. If they want to connect with you, if they want to follow you, see what you’re up to, where can they go to reach out and just say hi and make a connection?

Yann: Yeah. So, I’m on LinkedIn mostly for my corporate clients. So that’s just the Yang Dang. And I’m also launching a podcast. So, it’s called The Balanced Leader. It’s really about bringing that masculine and feminine together. And so that is at my website, which is aspire-coaching.co\podcast. So, if people are interested in that, we really explore a lot of these topics and have practical tools on how to bring emotional intelligence into the corporate space.

Stacey: I love it. We will link this up in the show notes. For those of you that happen to go to the show notes, they’re at staceyboehman.com/podcast, I believe. We have show notes for every single episode, and we always link up things that other guests mention or that I mention. So, we’ll have it there too, if that’s helpful. Well, thank you again so much for coming on and I will see you later today on our call possibly. But I really am just grateful for your time, I know it’s limited.

Yann: Yeah, well, I’m grateful to be here. I was super excited to hear about this. And I am super grateful to be part of your community. I feel it’s an integral part of my growth. And I’m just so glad I found you. I think it was Facebook Ads. I don’t know how you found me.

Stacey: That’s so crazy. I never have Facebook Ads from people. I love it. It did work.

Yann: They did. I remember you were like, “How do people find me?” And I was like, “Yeah.” So, thank you for all you do. And you being a mother is such a big piece of why I continue following you and being with you.

Stacey: I love that. Every time people tell me that I’m like, “Oh.” That was part of the journey, I was meant to become a mom because I do feel my coaching is so much better and so different now. And just having to figure this out for myself has been so helpful to help other people figure it out.

So, let’s just all do it and we’ll go spread the word and create lots of women being very successful and having environments where they can cry in the boardroom. And they can get their milk in the fridge of the hotel and it can be normalized of yes, this is the experience and we’re not going to hide it anymore. Alright, I will talk to you soon. Bye.

Yann: Bye.

Hey, if you’re ready to make money as a life coach, I want to invite you to join my 2k for 2k program where you’re going to make your first $2,000 the hardest part, using my simple five step formula for getting consults and closing new clients. Just head over to www.staceyboehman.com/2kfor2k. We’ll see you inside.